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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#331

Post by eli »

phonescreen_man wrote: post #329
eli wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy 50k in bitcoin on a US exchange and send it to someone in Ireland and they transfer it to their exchange and cash it out do they get back exactly 50k?

Sometimes.. sometimes more, sometimes less. The point is there is a crypto exchange they can cash out at, in fact many.. and usually the prices are similar across exchanges. John’s pawn shop doesn’t offer the same price for the Rolex as Patricia’s pawn shop.. anyway.. not really important in the grand scheme of things. Bitcoin bad mmmkay ;)

Even if the market price of crypto is magically stable and the exchanges are perfectly in sync, you're still paying the big-ask spread plus the fees to send the crypto itself.

I suspect in most cases Wise or similar would be cheaper and safer.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#332

Post by _cenw »

danaris wrote: post #119
_cenw wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some illegal activity is commonly considered a moral good.

Some illegal activity is considered a moral good. Cryptocurrency is used for illegal activity. Therefore, cryptocurrency is a moral good. ^ This is a classic logical fallacy called a false syllogism. The archetypal example is "All men are mortal. Socrates is mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates." I assure you that all cryptocurrency is neither a moral good, nor is it Socrates.

I did not make that claim. I would not make that claim.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#333

Post by _cenw »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #186
nightski wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exact same logic is applied to USD all the time. You know, if you just skip the Starbucks you'll have hundreds of thousands!

Crypto-- the original view of it-- is anarchy. The crypto ecosystem we see today is a mode of failure of anarchy as a governance model. You ultimately need a financial authority to promote "stable" prices, and even that statement is highly political. You also need some serious gravitas to protect the currency, and this is where the crypto episode is most curious. Governments that for years prohibited "competition" of…

Anarcho-capitslism has always been laughably self-destructive if you are half-serious about modeling the incentives. Most anarchists don't seem to believe that capitalism as-is and anarchism can co-exist. Market socialists are probably the closest you get to having them co-exist.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#334

Post by naasking »

acdha wrote: post #302
naasking wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think an outcome that could have gone another way but for some random historical circumstance counts as arbitrary. For instance, do you think our regulatory framework would look the same today had Prohibition not happened? That's a case where the State created a problem (black market funding large scale organized crime) and then added yet more rules to try and fix that problem. Edit: so one could argue that we "nee…

The common definition of “arbitrary” has a connotation of randomness to it. My point was that this isn't random but directed, and that if you don't understand who those rules serve you'll just end up repeating it in a different form or having the old rule adapted for new purposes, similar to how various measures originally intended to prevent alcohol or drug money being laundered were repurposed as part of the War on…

> The common definition of “arbitrary” has a connotation of randomness to it. My point was that this isn't random but directed

Yes, it's directed at solving a problem, but the specific solution we arrived at is somewhat random. I'm not sure how to make this clearer.

If you take any set of historical problems and the regulations that were intended to address them, do you agree that a different set of regulations could have solved the same problems? If different ones would also have worked, then aren't the ones we ended up with somewhat arbitrary?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#335

Post by [deleted] »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #67

You don't need crypto to run a scam. Financial scams are as old as money is. The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. There isn't. In fact, you could argue that the enormous activity of scammers in this space actually points to some inherent qualities that might be useful beyond just running ponzi schemes and other scams. One of these qualities is…

[deleted]

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#336

Post by RestlessMind »

valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

> Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s

Yeah because every single government out there is competent, non-corrupt and cares for its citizens. You are definitely not living in a bubble /s

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#337

Post by simplotek »

earthbee wrote: post #17
simplotek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It must be nice to be able to just state something is thoroughly debunked and not have to give any evidence (...) That's quite the amusing comment, given the fact that crypto-bros reiterate that crypto is somehow money in spite of if repeatedly failing each and every single trait that makes something a currency. Now, when someone points out that fact, here we are with a newfound passion for argumentative formalitie…

I've exchanged crypto for goods and services, it's money for all my purposes.

> I've exchanged crypto for goods and services, it's money for all my purposes.

I can go to the local market and exchange a bag of potatoes for some lettuce.

A potato is still not money.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#338

Post by simplotek »

birracerveza wrote: post #84
earthbee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've exchanged crypto for goods and services, it's money for all my purposes.

Yeah, but I didn't use it (because I think it's a scam) therefore it's not money nor currency. I can't understand these people. I have a bank account with FIAT, and I also have BTC. I use both to pay for things. Although I mostly use FIAT, I also have a credit card that I charge with BTC to pay for things, but if I have the option I also pay with BTC directly. How is that "not a currency"? Because some people use it…

> Yeah, but I didn't use it (because I think it's a scam) therefore it's not money nor currency.

This blend of arguments is either terribly ignorant or disingenuous.

The definition of money is not "something that might have value to someone". Money has a very concrete definition, which lies in three key traits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

Point out exactly which of these key functions do you believe any crypto thing complies with.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#339

Post by simplotek »

LatteLazy wrote: post #8
simplotek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It must be nice to be able to just state something is thoroughly debunked and not have to give any evidence (...) That's quite the amusing comment, given the fact that crypto-bros reiterate that crypto is somehow money in spite of if repeatedly failing each and every single trait that makes something a currency. Now, when someone points out that fact, here we are with a newfound passion for argumentative formalitie…

There are 2 really amusing things here: * that so many people think crypto is either perfect or totally evil and admit no middle ground. * that both groups constantly claim their (rather extremist) views are facts but refuse to substantiate them. I wonder how long it will take for people to agree that crypto neither cures cancer nor causes it...

> * that so many people think crypto is either perfect or totally evil and admit no middle ground.

Such a strawman right in the leading hypothesis. What makes it so hard for you to face the actual criticism directed at crypto? Do you find it so indefensible that you prefer to avoid it altogether?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#340

Post by latchkey »

rvz wrote: post #235
nic_wilson wrote: post #181

It may have already been noted elsewhere but it seems important to note that the author was (is?) the CTO of private blockchain start up and choosing to not disclose this in any of his crypto criticism seems very dishonest https://twitter.com/dystopiabreaker/status/14701269278180679...

I guess it would be embarrassing for him to admit that he tried to compete against Ethereum after Cardano destroyed his private blockchain startup. Stephen Diehl is also no better than the crypto maximalists with his extreme absolutism. You won't see him debate and test his arguments with a balanced panel discussion so that you can easily see how extreme his arguments are. He has a book to sell and is full time, 24/7…

Molly White is the female Diehl.
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