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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#241

Post by shagymoe »

amelius wrote: post #98
valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

Crypto is also a gift from heaven for ransomware operators.

This is a similar argument to "We need to ban encryption to protect children."

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#242

Post by psychlops »

j16sdiz wrote: post #108
psychlops wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g. China rolled out the the e-yuan currency last year. Not a decentralized blockchain but it obviously incorporates some of the technology. Other countries are doing similar things. Governments will do it as they need a regional monopoly on their fiat scam. The new centralization and financial tracking are features.

Fiat money is protected by the government, military, etc... with gun and power. What is policing crypto?

It's not clear to me what you are trying to say. Local laws on fraud protect both fiat and crypto. Someone stealing $20,000 or 1 bitcoin is subject to the same penalties.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#243

Post by b3nji »

gloosx wrote: post #227

I disagree with this, it seems to me that if you follow author's logic you can call US dollar scam too - a lot of it's value is same thin air called "debt"?. The problem with argumentation and particulary with church comparison is that in order for something to be called scam, as per definition provided in the article, someone must be there who planned it, who gets all the profits. But crypto has no central entity, n…

Some would go far as to say all fiat currency is a total scam. "Fake money", as I think Robert T. Kiyosaki, author of "Rich Dad Poor Dad" describes it.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#244

Post by ravingraven »

ynniv wrote: post #190
valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

Bitcoin is a useful mechanism for exchanging value, but NFTs have yet not shown any utility. The difference is that a currency only needs to solve scarcity and double spend, which blockchains accomplish, but ownership of property requires physical and/or legal protections, which they do not. Once you introduce an organization that enforces property rights there's no reason to use an expensive blockchain instead of a…

>...but ownership of property requires physical and/or legal protections, which they do not.

This is not true for digital property. Digital property is just as "made up" as the NFT that proves its ownership. People hear "NFT" and for some inexplicable reason jump to physical art.

If the network believes, by whatever consensus methods for proof of ownership that are employed by this network, that you own one coin then those same methods can be used so that the network can believe that you own a certain digital asset. That ownership is just as real as the ownership of a coin.

What people get confused with is the concept of copying or using (both are actually the same problem) this asset. But, this is not an NFT problem, it is a digital problem. All digital assets have this problem, if you give me the asset I can copy and use it without your consent.

Example: I can trivially copy the entire Netflix catalogue on my hard-drive. Since those bits land on my system to be shown on a screen they can just as easily land on my HD as an mp4 file. Are we on any disagreement that Netflix owns those shows? No. But once made available to me, I can use them however I want. Ownership and "use" are to unrelated things when it comes to digital.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#245

Post by ur-whale »

rvz wrote: post #235
nic_wilson wrote: post #181

It may have already been noted elsewhere but it seems important to note that the author was (is?) the CTO of private blockchain start up and choosing to not disclose this in any of his crypto criticism seems very dishonest https://twitter.com/dystopiabreaker/status/14701269278180679...

I guess it would be embarrassing for him to admit that he tried to compete against Ethereum after Cardano destroyed his private blockchain startup. Stephen Diehl is also no better than the crypto maximalists with his extreme absolutism. You won't see him debate and test his arguments with a balanced panel discussion so that you can easily see how extreme his arguments are. He has a book to sell and is full time, 24/7…

> I guess it would be embarrassing for him to admit that he tried to compete against Ethereum after Cardano destroyed his private blockchain startup.

Given the level of Rage Against The Crypto ™ displayed, that's pretty much implicit.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#246

Post by rawoke083600 »

j16sdiz wrote: post #108
psychlops wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g. China rolled out the the e-yuan currency last year. Not a decentralized blockchain but it obviously incorporates some of the technology. Other countries are doing similar things. Governments will do it as they need a regional monopoly on their fiat scam. The new centralization and financial tracking are features.

Fiat money is protected by the government, military, etc... with gun and power. What is policing crypto?

source code...

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#247

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

mabbo wrote: post #212
sidewndr46 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever paid for anything substantial with real money? It's a huge pain in the ass. I have to go into a bank, even during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. I have to pay outrageous fees to transfer money & participate in something called a "wire". Where my money will simply be magically transferred to another party somehow. There are a zillion steps, none of which are disclosed to me. It should work fine, bu…

There's three arguments there: 1 - Banks can make mistakes. 2 - Banks can be slow. 3 - Banks making it really hard to do transfer large sums of money. I can't solve 1, but I can tell you that crypto definitely doesn't solve it. Because making a mistake with crypto is irreversible. The money is just gone. Mom forgot her password because she's getting old? Well, too bad, now Mom is broke and her money is gone forever.…

You don't realize that the reason they are slow is because they are insecure. Why don't wires go on weekends? Because there is a possibility of an error, that a human clerk would need to sort out in his working time. Bitcoin can go on weekend because its mathematically secure.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#248

Post by jqpabc123 »

naasking wrote: post #232
jqpabc123 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exchanges are not necessary for crypto. Yes they absolutely are. Without them, there would be no crypto *market* --- centralized or otherwise. Everyone turns to the exchanges to value their crypto --- even those doing peer-to-peer (DEX). Also, there is no central authority telling exchanges how they have to operate Exactly! In the absence thereof, they become the defacto "central authority" --- by the sheer weight of…

> Everyone turns to the exchanges to value their crypto. Not everyone. And the fact that most turn to exchanges says nothing about crypto's dependence on them. If all exchanges were outlawed tomorrow Bitcoin would still not disappear. Furthermore, the existence of multiple exchanges already refutes your claim that there is a central authority, de facto or otherwise.

Furthermore, the existence of multiple exchanges already refutes your claim

Bitfinex and Binance control the market by sheer weight of their trading volume.

The others have no choice but to follow their lead. If they don't, these "Big Two" will arbitrage against them and they have an unlimited supply of "stable coins" to work with.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#249

Post by yao420 »

detrites wrote: post #134

Some here are pathetically-misinformed regarding crypto's utility and social benefits. Read the Latin America section of Chainalysis 2022 report (Pgs. 19 - 27) before claiming "it's all a scam" (and so spreading mis-information): https://go.chainalysis.com/rs/503-FAP-074/images/2022-Geogra... For those not aware, the company that produced this report, Chainalysis, actively aids prosecution of illegality in the crypto…

As a Latin American the largest uptake I see is among criminal groups for money laundering.[0]

But with an open mind I read the section you called out and I have several issues.

The first is that the report doesn’t actually discuss or show the numbers. The country reporting only talks about inflation in those countries and percentage of transactions, how much volume and coins are these countries actually moving?

They have the stats, but know it’s all wash trading. Funny how ‘wash trading’ or even ‘money laundering’ doesn’t even make it I to the report. Really makes the branding of building trust in blockchains laughable.

Second this report is very outdated.

This is seen in the Mexico section; it talks about inflation numbers and the potential for remittances. It even mentions coinbase’s program which was shutdown in sept 22 for lack of usage (as in a couple hundred bucks a week).

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/mexico-bitcoin/insight-latin...

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#250

Post by lelanthran »

earthbee wrote: post #17
simplotek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It must be nice to be able to just state something is thoroughly debunked and not have to give any evidence (...) That's quite the amusing comment, given the fact that crypto-bros reiterate that crypto is somehow money in spite of if repeatedly failing each and every single trait that makes something a currency. Now, when someone points out that fact, here we are with a newfound passion for argumentative formalitie…

I've exchanged crypto for goods and services, it's money for all my purposes.

> I've exchanged crypto for goods and services, it's money for all my purposes.

I've exchanged potatoes for tomatoes once.

Doesn't make 'em currency.

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