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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

161–170 of 396 posts

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#161
> However, crypto represents a divergence entirely from a Keynesian worldview in that it has created this bizarre simulacrum of markets with all the trappings and veneer of finance but which has no pretense of being tethered to the economic problem at all. No goods, services or resources are being exchanged. Crypto is a Keynesian beauty contest for zero-sum get-rich-quick schemes. I call it the nothingness game, a bizarre contest in which participants continuously punt on get-rich-quick schemes for lumps of nothing based on their perception of which lump of nothing others believe is the most attractive.

What a bizarre argument. Keynes wrote in the 1920s and 30s, so according to Diehl, did economics and finance not exist prior to Keynes? Was it all just a simulacrum until Keynes showed up and whipped out his General Theory? The map is not the territory.

This isn't even factually true. Crypto is in fact used in the real economy of places that have such bad monetary systems that crypto is much more stable. Look at Venezuela or even Ukraine and how much crypto is used there because the formal financial system is shambolic.

Crypto scams may be more common in the developed world where formal institutions are decent enough that the marginal cost of using crypto in the real economy is just too high compared to the legacy financial system.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#162

I use cryptocurrencies to pay for services where I want to stay anonymous for no ill/illegal reason. I just don't feel comfortable being watched wherever I go and whatever I do even if I don't do anything evil.

This entire comment section seems premised on this idea that crypto is useful because it's anonymous. But with the exception of a couple tokens like Monero and Zcash, which are rarely used, crypto is significantly LESS anonymous than cash. There's a reason it's called a public ledger. So odd.

Cash is much more expensive to transact in.

Bitcoin is more private than bank/credit card transfers even if you don't try to hide your identity, because it costs more to follow your trail (especially if you bought it from a natural person rather than a KYC centralized exchange). But it is pretty convenient, as it can be done fully online.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody used cryptocurrencies for payment before speculation happened. You had people paying 10k BTC for a pizza and;.. that was it, because they were funny internet coins. The only reason people take cryptocurrencies as payment now is because they have value. Why do they have value ? Because people can speculate on it. Saying that cryptocurrency should be made illegal is a stupid idea, of course. However, cryptocurre…

The majority of all USD in existence is digital, so your reasoning falls somewhat flat.

The lack of value for funny internet coins doesn't come from it being digital, it comes from being absolutely worthless because noone wants to take it. When a government, a physical entity is formed and says "the US Dollar is the currency we'll use to exchange goods", you have value in the USD because you know you're going to be able to use it. You'll be able to buy your lunch with it, because the state you live in says that you have to take it.

Your bitcoin only has value because it can be used to... have more value. It's worthless, and should speculation be gone, you'll go back to it being an unused toy.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#164

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

Fun fact: so are Rolex watches and so many other luxury nonsense products with a high price. Wear one on each arm. Travel via airplanes across borders. Sell the watches. Now you have a lot of untraceable cash. Fly back and forth for business purposes seven times in one week. Maybe bring more expensive watches, perhaps that $200,000 USD Patek Philippe is a great way to get that payoff across borders. Crypto and NFTs a…

Problem with that though is finding a buyer, let’s say I buy 2 rolexs for 50k, I want to pay off my dealer in Ireland, so I fly there with my two watches.. how do I sell them? Do I just hawk em in a pawn shop, if so would I still get back my 50k?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#165

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

You identified a source of genuine (if perhaps undesirable) value for cryptocurrency, but not necessarily bitcoin.

And is BTC goes close enough to zero, double spend protection becomes increasingly tenuous, and the incentive to switch to something else gets stronger.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#166

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

Fun fact: so are Rolex watches and so many other luxury nonsense products with a high price. Wear one on each arm. Travel via airplanes across borders. Sell the watches. Now you have a lot of untraceable cash. Fly back and forth for business purposes seven times in one week. Maybe bring more expensive watches, perhaps that $200,000 USD Patek Philippe is a great way to get that payoff across borders. Crypto and NFTs a…

See also: the majority of the international trade in art and the use of Freeports. Now you don't even need to move the things around.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#167

Not just a scam, it is the *ultimate* scam. There is no product being sold. People are being convinced to surrender working currency in exchange for a public database entry that records the fact they were duped.

working currency that has lost 95% of its value over the last 100 years (referencing inflation of US dollar since 1920)

It is because you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to economics.

A currency that doesn't inflate, doesn't get spent. It gets horded and stops acting as a medium of exchange. Exactly what we see with crypto and why the currency part is bullshit with it.

It is just embarrassing how ignorant people into crypto are with economics. This is economics 101 stuff, most basic ideas.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#168
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also say things like “the US dollar is stable” without citing economics papers because it’s reasonable to assume the audience isn’t a saucer full of aliens who just arrived and have no prior knowledge. Even bitcoin proponents no longer claim it’s a currency - many of them even pretend never to have claimed otherwise when it interferes with the sales pitch - and the investment claims have been similarly defined…

If an economist wrong an article that's title was "the usd is stable", he would either need to show that, or it would be a rather pointless article wouldn't it? Similarly, an article whose title and whole content is just "Crypto Is All a Scam" should probably actually contain something more than "because we all agree, don't ask questions"... And if such an economist were challenged on whether the USD is stable, he wo…

An economist wouldn’t publish an article saying the USD is stable because that’s the accepted baseline. The same is true of saying cryptocurrency has failed to deliver value after 15 years and billions of dollars in real money have been consumed with almost no real world impact other than renaming a stadium.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#169
post #37

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

The killer app for crypto is "KYC-less" which usually means "I can evade taxes or sell illicit goods". Otherwise, real money is faster, more scalable, and more resilient to users making mistakes. Nothing I do is illegal; I pay my taxes; sometimes I make mistakes. Why would I ever want to use crypto over real money?

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#170
post #50

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

I bought a new video game in 2011 with BTC and whenever I tell the story the crypto bro in the room laughs at me for not holding on to what amounts to something like half a million dollars now. Sort of like people keep bringing up the guy who bought pizza 2 years prior. How dare I use a self-proclaimed currency as a currency. I lost all interest once I realized very few people actually want it to be a currency and th…

Truly what most people use the computer for is pornography.

1 type of person "Bicycle for the mind", another type of person "porn machine". This has no bearing on the value prop of personal computers.

Guess which kind of person is building better and better things?

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