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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#141

Post by bheadmaster »

detrites wrote: post #134

Some here are pathetically-misinformed regarding crypto's utility and social benefits. Read the Latin America section of Chainalysis 2022 report (Pgs. 19 - 27) before claiming "it's all a scam" (and so spreading mis-information): https://go.chainalysis.com/rs/503-FAP-074/images/2022-Geogra... For those not aware, the company that produced this report, Chainalysis, actively aids prosecution of illegality in the crypto…

> and so spreading mis-information

Who died and made you the Minister of Truth?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#142

Post by josh2600 »

Society is also a scam if you view it through this lens.

All innovation, all technology can be wielded for good or for evil.

With fire anyone can burn a building or cook a steak.

I like to find the people who are using technology to help others.

Let's make stuff to amplify them.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#143

Post by SuoDuanDao »

dgb23 wrote: post #63
mabbo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer app for crypto is "KYC-less" which usually means "I can evade taxes or sell illicit goods". Otherwise, real money is faster, more scalable, and more resilient to users making mistakes. Nothing I do is illegal; I pay my taxes; sometimes I make mistakes. Why would I ever want to use crypto over real money?

Not an advocate for crypto. Quite the contrary. But legitimacy and legality diverge. Not sure if it’s marketing BS or similar, but I’ve read that some people used it to circumvent defunct government or hyper inflation. If that’s true, then I side with those that want to live a decent life despite corruption and (international) politics exploiting and oppressing them. Again, I don’t know how reliable that info is, and…

Given the transparent nature of the blockchain, it's actually very hard to hide illegal activity on it. Much of the reason for my bullishness on crypto is that it makes graft harder. I wonder how much of the sentiment against crypto stems from beneficiaries of opaque institutions.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#144

Post by A_Venom_Roll »

ernst_klim wrote: post #121
aNoob7000 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, crypto is useless. Are people making money trading it? Yes. Can regular people do anything with it? No. With as much money that has been poured into crypto related businesses, I still can't easily send or transact business with it.

> Can regular people do anything with it? No. It's used a lot in the third world. In Georgia you can buy a burger paying crypto via NFC terminal. I also know people who get their salaries in crypto. And it's used a lot for donating to opposition where it's illegal, like in most dictatorship.

Can you give some estimates about how much crypto is "used" in the third world, or at least give some sources for this statement?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#145

Post by detrites »

bheadmaster wrote: post #141
detrites wrote: post #134

Some here are pathetically-misinformed regarding crypto's utility and social benefits. Read the Latin America section of Chainalysis 2022 report (Pgs. 19 - 27) before claiming "it's all a scam" (and so spreading mis-information): https://go.chainalysis.com/rs/503-FAP-074/images/2022-Geogra... For those not aware, the company that produced this report, Chainalysis, actively aids prosecution of illegality in the crypto…

> and so spreading mis-information Who died and made you the Minister of Truth?

Truth did.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#146

Post by angio »

dmitriid wrote: post #135
angio wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, which country are you based in? Because for people based in countries with high inflation, crypto is a great tool to get paid in usd and reinvest it without being forced by their governement to convert it into their currency. Obviously, if you're based in a country with a strong currency and where all financial intstruments are available, that's not important.

Ah yes. The well-known stability of crypto... with value swings that put most volatile currencies to shame.

They use it for USDC, which is much better than buying dollars on the black market.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#147

Post by ohgodplsno »

rom-antics wrote: post #57
valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3942181 > For example, illegal transactions, scams and gambling together make up less than 3% of volume. Note that: 1. This quote is talking specifically about bitcoin, not crypto overall 2. This paper is written by a notable crypto skeptic, so he's not using bro logic. He found the main usage by volume is speculation, with very little illegal activity. In fact, the…

As the other comment said, "illegal transactions" makes no sense. Al Capone's bank account did not receive directly millions from racket and drug selling. Everything in there was clean. Where did it come from ? Accounts that are also thought to be clean. Otherwise, if there were direct proof of illegal transactions, he'd have been arrested earlier.

The whole point of it is _not_ to get caught. In a space like cryptocurrencies where creating a new wallet to launder your money through and no longer have anything associated with evil_wallet_of_bad_illegal_man (which had all its funds sent to a tumbler and came back to the new account anyways). The whole point of underground transactions is to not be tracked.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#148

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

naasking wrote: post #118
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, stocks are also an awful mechanism through which the East India Company fooled some "spice bros" to give them money for worthless papers. However, no Wall Street person will argue with a straight face if I want a bagel I just have to sell some BRK.A. One must stop once in a while and ask themselves: what are they are trying to achieve, do they really want to be an effector in maximizing the pain and suffering of…

> However, no Wall Street person will argue with a straight face if I want a bagel I just have to sell some BRK.A. That's exactly what you're doing when you buy something: trading an asset (dollars) that can appreciate in value in a savings account for some good you want or need right now.

Since when have savings accounts appreciated in value? Last I checked interest rates were still pitiful and inflation well outpaced them.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#149

Post by psychlops »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #77
djha-skin wrote: post #52

OP's arguments: - Like indulgences, crypto made value out of thin air - Indulgences were a scam so crypto is a scam - Crypto doesn't fit with Keynesian economics and is therefore false I am not Catholic, but his tone implying that anyone who is religious is a fool feels more like an ad hominem attack than anything. As to the veracity of Keynesian economics, I am less than convinced he got everything right. That said,…

At this point, crypto is useless. Are people making money trading it? Yes. Can regular people do anything with it? No. With as much money that has been poured into crypto related businesses, I still can't easily send or transact business with it.

If only people were forced to use it by a local authority so you could easily transact in it, then it would be useful. Satoshi should have thought of that in his whitepaper.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#150

Post by doix »

ernst_klim wrote: post #121
aNoob7000 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, crypto is useless. Are people making money trading it? Yes. Can regular people do anything with it? No. With as much money that has been poured into crypto related businesses, I still can't easily send or transact business with it.

> Can regular people do anything with it? No. It's used a lot in the third world. In Georgia you can buy a burger paying crypto via NFC terminal. I also know people who get their salaries in crypto. And it's used a lot for donating to opposition where it's illegal, like in most dictatorship.

Georgia is/was absolutely mad. I was in Tbilisi for a while and met _a lot_ of crypto bros. Probably highest concentration of crypto bros I've seen in a single city ever, or at least I struggled to find "expats" that weren't into crypto when I was there. This was before the war, I suspect the demographic is different now.

Everyone was openly talking about how they use it to evade tax because Georgia isn't a CRS reporting country (didn't know what that meant before I met them). Or people paying 1% tax "legitimately" (I have no way of verifying their claims) due to some loophole.

So many places advertising cash for crypto and vice versa. There was also something going on near Svaneti where there was free electricity and people were using it to mine crypto and the mafia was involved, I don't know the details. Apparently there is cool snowboarding around there, but I stuck around in Gudauri since it looked like a pain to travel all the way to Svaneti from Tbilisi.

On a side note, I don't think Georgia is classed as third world, right? Technically it's probably "second world" since it's a former soviet country. But even stepping away from the technicalities, the infrastructure there was pretty great. Great 4g coverage for a great price.

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