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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#101

Post by luma »

rom-antics wrote: post #57
valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3942181 > For example, illegal transactions, scams and gambling together make up less than 3% of volume. Note that: 1. This quote is talking specifically about bitcoin, not crypto overall 2. This paper is written by a notable crypto skeptic, so he's not using bro logic. He found the main usage by volume is speculation, with very little illegal activity. In fact, the…

The overwhelming volume is in wash trading, which is just a different kind of fraud.

It's all fraud.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#102

Post by cirgue »

djha-skin wrote: post #52

OP's arguments: - Like indulgences, crypto made value out of thin air - Indulgences were a scam so crypto is a scam - Crypto doesn't fit with Keynesian economics and is therefore false I am not Catholic, but his tone implying that anyone who is religious is a fool feels more like an ad hominem attack than anything. As to the veracity of Keynesian economics, I am less than convinced he got everything right. That said,…

This is silly. No religious person today who has even a passing understanding of church history thinks that indulgences weren’t a scam. You’re aware that the Reformation has happened since then, right? As to Keynesian economics, the author isn’t arguing for a Keynesian worldview per se, he’s using Keynes definition of economics, which is a definition not unique to him.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#103

Post by luma »

_cenw wrote: post #50
ShowalkKama wrote: post #16

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

I bought a new video game in 2011 with BTC and whenever I tell the story the crypto bro in the room laughs at me for not holding on to what amounts to something like half a million dollars now. Sort of like people keep bringing up the guy who bought pizza 2 years prior. How dare I use a self-proclaimed currency as a currency. I lost all interest once I realized very few people actually want it to be a currency and th…

The main excitement is hopes of getting rich quick with very little skill or effort applied.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#104

Post by naasking »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #24

Not just a scam, it is the *ultimate* scam. There is no product being sold. People are being convinced to surrender working currency in exchange for a public database entry that records the fact they were duped.

> There is no product being sold

The product is clearly the ability to exchange financial value friction-free and with no middle men or central authority. The various crypto coins achieve this property quite well with various tradeoffs on speed, anonymity, etc.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#105

Post by danaris »

luckylion wrote: post #59
mabbo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The killer app for crypto is "KYC-less" which usually means "I can evade taxes or sell illicit goods". Otherwise, real money is faster, more scalable, and more resilient to users making mistakes. Nothing I do is illegal; I pay my taxes; sometimes I make mistakes. Why would I ever want to use crypto over real money?

Bitcoin will not freeze your assets for 90-180 days if you suddenly make twice as many sales.

This is an argument for more regulation (of PayPal, and similar payment processors), not less, and certainly not for cryptocurrency.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#106

Post by TEP_Kim_Il_Sung »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #38
ShowalkKama wrote: post #16

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

Nobody used cryptocurrencies for payment before speculation happened. You had people paying 10k BTC for a pizza and;.. that was it, because they were funny internet coins. The only reason people take cryptocurrencies as payment now is because they have value. Why do they have value ? Because people can speculate on it. Saying that cryptocurrency should be made illegal is a stupid idea, of course. However, cryptocurre…

The majority of all USD in existence is digital, so your reasoning falls somewhat flat.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#107

Post by bryanlarsen »

rom-antics wrote: post #57
valdiorn wrote: post #27

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3942181 > For example, illegal transactions, scams and gambling together make up less than 3% of volume. Note that: 1. This quote is talking specifically about bitcoin, not crypto overall 2. This paper is written by a notable crypto skeptic, so he's not using bro logic. He found the main usage by volume is speculation, with very little illegal activity. In fact, the…

"main usage by volume being speculation" doesn't help the case. A little bit of speculation helps price discovery. A lot leads to tulips etc, and is very dangerous.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#108

Post by j16sdiz »

psychlops wrote: post #80
jillesvangurp wrote: post #67

You don't need crypto to run a scam. Financial scams are as old as money is. The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. There isn't. In fact, you could argue that the enormous activity of scammers in this space actually points to some inherent qualities that might be useful beyond just running ponzi schemes and other scams. One of these qualities is…

> E.g. China rolled out the the e-yuan currency last year. Not a decentralized blockchain but it obviously incorporates some of the technology. Other countries are doing similar things. Governments will do it as they need a regional monopoly on their fiat scam. The new centralization and financial tracking are features.

Fiat money is protected by the government, military, etc... with gun and power.

What is policing crypto?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#109

Post by baryphonic »

fredley wrote: post #74
jillesvangurp wrote: post #67

You don't need crypto to run a scam. Financial scams are as old as money is. The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. There isn't. In fact, you could argue that the enormous activity of scammers in this space actually points to some inherent qualities that might be useful beyond just running ponzi schemes and other scams. One of these qualities is…

> The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. I think this goes without saying: money and financial systems are regulated—to some degree—everywhere in the World. They are regulated by Governments, and there are real penalties for evading those regulations and getting caught. Many of these regulations were put in place to prevent the kind of shenaniga…

> In crypto, by design, there is no regulation, nor is it really possible. This is the something that's special about crypto.

If by "regulation" you mean an external authority dictating rules to the crypto world, then yes, there is no regulation. But how many times have regulatory authorities for legacy finance lost track of the ball and permitted dangerous activity and even outright fraud? In the late aughts, regulators were so blind to reality that they permitted the Madoff scam and even the completely reckless trade in CDOs & CDSs that tanked the global economy. Then they promulgated "too big to fail" and bailed out the banks that had defrauded us (though at least Madoff went to jail).

On the other hand, if by "regulation" you mean a set of rules that can help guarantee the credibility, transparency and stability of financial institutions, then crypto can absolutely do that via e.g. smart contracts. That regulation would be entirely opt-in and the onus would he be on the buyer to evaluate the crypto for dangerous & vulnerable bits. That may be easier said than done.

Regardless, GP's point is well made, and the story about crypto regulation isn't so clear-cut.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#110

Post by cinntaile »

nebulous1 wrote: post #78

I don't really understand people trying to defend absurd positions like this. What's even the point? It doesn't seem like it's necessary for this to be true if you want to argue that crypto "should" be eliminated, all you need to do is argue that it's decisively more bad than good. When somebody makes weak arguments like this I'm just going to ignore their thoughts in the future because they've demonstrated that they…

Crypto takedowns are basically what this guy does. [0] Just like you have the religious crypto evangelists, you have the religious anti-crypto people. This is about feelings, not reason so that's why the arguments tend to be a bit far-fetched/weak. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=stephendiehl.com
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