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Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

stephendiehl.com

91–100 of 396 posts

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#91
post #74

You don't need crypto to run a scam. Financial scams are as old as money is. The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. There isn't. In fact, you could argue that the enormous activity of scammers in this space actually points to some inherent qualities that might be useful beyond just running ponzi schemes and other scams. One of these qualities is…

> The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. I think this goes without saying: money and financial systems are regulated—to some degree—everywhere in the World. They are regulated by Governments, and there are real penalties for evading those regulations and getting caught. Many of these regulations were put in place to prevent the kind of shenaniga…

> In crypto, by design, there is no regulation, nor is it really possible.

That's demonstrably untrue—at least, that it's not possible. (I'm perfectly willing to believe it was designed to be unregulatable; it's just that, as usual, programmers echo-chambering at each other about how they think the law works didn't actually take into account how the law really works.)

Crypto is becoming regulated more and more as time goes on.

There's nothing special and magical about it; it was just new, and with the US Congress hopelessly dysfunctional, it was not hard to predict that it would take some time for them to actually catch up and start doing something about it.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"crypto as a payment method" 1 BTC currently is 22,987 USD. "The 2023 Honda Civic has a base MSRP of $24,650" [1]. No sane person, i.e. person not having more money than they can count [2], wanting to buy a car would ever spend the 1 BTC today for a Honda Civic, maybe the 'market' will go up and they will be able to afford a 48K Mustang Mach-E, or maybe it will go really up and be able to afford a 250K Lucid Air Sapp…

I’m not going to defend crypto, but this is a bad argument. One Satoshi (the smallest increment of Bitcoin) is currently worth $0.0002289.

Ok. So maybe you can accept as economically rational to spend a few Satoshis for a bagel. Then where do you draw the line where BTC (or the other cryptos) stops being an effective currency? 15K?, 10K?, 1K? Let's say you want to buy a computer: 1 ETH is currently 1,637 USD, one Macbook Pro 13 M2 is 1,300 USD. Aren't you an irrational economic agent if you spent the 1 ETH today instead of waiting a few months maybe ETH will be back at the 4.6K ATH, when you will be able to buy a MacBook Pro 16 with M2 Max?

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#93
post #74

You don't need crypto to run a scam. Financial scams are as old as money is. The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. There isn't. In fact, you could argue that the enormous activity of scammers in this space actually points to some inherent qualities that might be useful beyond just running ponzi schemes and other scams. One of these qualities is…

> The fallacy in this argument is that there's something special in crypto that makes this more likely to happen. I think this goes without saying: money and financial systems are regulated—to some degree—everywhere in the World. They are regulated by Governments, and there are real penalties for evading those regulations and getting caught. Many of these regulations were put in place to prevent the kind of shenaniga…

The fact that crypto people will tell you with a straight face that the irreversibility of transfers is a feature and not a bug should be enough of a tell...

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"crypto as a payment method" 1 BTC currently is 22,987 USD. "The 2023 Honda Civic has a base MSRP of $24,650" [1]. No sane person, i.e. person not having more money than they can count [2], wanting to buy a car would ever spend the 1 BTC today for a Honda Civic, maybe the 'market' will go up and they will be able to afford a 48K Mustang Mach-E, or maybe it will go really up and be able to afford a 250K Lucid Air Sapp…

You could say the same about stocks, but clearly this isn't a failure mode. Sometimes people need to actually buy things.

The difference is stocks have a reliable basis for going up based on an underlying asset that generates wealth. Most crypto is backed by nothing, some is backed by other crypto which is also in the end nothing.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#95
Oh my god, this guy is the ultimate troll,!!!

Listen, have you ever observed a troll writing a book?

Really? Currency is a scam. You get paid in paper, pay taxes on it, which gets stolen( sorry in edged) in corrupted corps, with a debt system where you are just a slave of your mortgage - unless you're a clever troll, and you bought 10btc 10 years ago, write a book to put the price down, while at the same time, being the most biased possible to trigger HN readers in the hope of getting a Google page rank.... Pathetic.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#96

I'd like to remind the readers that some people use crypto as a payment method and do not speculate. As far as I know there is no alternative with the same level of convinience that crypto provide (KYC-less and fast payments to anyone in the world with just one secret). Remember that next time you suggest something among the lines of "crypto should be made illegal".

> KYC-less Is your argument seriously that crypto shouldn't be illegal so it can remain a convenient method of payment for illegal activities?

Some laws are immoral; some regimes are oppressive. Helping to circumvent them can be virtuous.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"crypto as a payment method" 1 BTC currently is 22,987 USD. "The 2023 Honda Civic has a base MSRP of $24,650" [1]. No sane person, i.e. person not having more money than they can count [2], wanting to buy a car would ever spend the 1 BTC today for a Honda Civic, maybe the 'market' will go up and they will be able to afford a 48K Mustang Mach-E, or maybe it will go really up and be able to afford a 250K Lucid Air Sapp…

You could say the same about stocks, but clearly this isn't a failure mode. Sometimes people need to actually buy things.

Yes, stocks are also an awful mechanism through which the East India Company fooled some "spice bros" to give them money for worthless papers. However, no Wall Street person will argue with a straight face if I want a bagel I just have to sell some BRK.A.

One must stop once in a while and ask themselves: what are they are trying to achieve, do they really want to be an effector in maximizing the pain and suffering of the world through vapid technology.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#98

Crypto absolutely has value, and the price of Bitcoin will never go to zero. NFTs are useful. That's because the value these things provide is money-laundering, bypassing of international financial regulations and tax fraud. Yeah that's a superb value proposition right there, and definitely something we want to keep free and available /s The current system is flawed in many, many ways, but none of it happened arbitra…

Crypto is also a gift from heaven for ransomware operators.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#99
Let me just point out how incredibly poor the word "scam" is defined in that dictionary. By that literal definition a lot of different things become scams because they are "clever", dishonest and are about making money.

Re: Yes, Crypto Is All a Scam

#100
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> KYC-less Is your argument seriously that crypto shouldn't be illegal so it can remain a convenient method of payment for illegal activities?

Some illegal activity is commonly considered a moral good.

In a lot of jurisdictions, theft, extortion, kidnapping, and murder, are considered moral goods, depending on who the perpetrators are.
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