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Bard and new AI features in Search

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Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banner, sidebar, in-line, interstitial, modal… what advertising modes wouldn’t work on conversational interface?

Conversational interfaces seem ideally suited to voice assistants. When you ask "hey google, what's the default password for my router?" does it make you sit through a 30 second ad before saying "the default password is password ".

Amazon Alexa does yell ads like that. It's horrific.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the Microsoft partnership. MS has a 48% stake in OpenAI and provides all the infrastructure through Azure, including purpose built machines for model training. Microsoft has also launched GitHub Copilot, summarization features in Teams, and is widely reported to be adding GPT features to Bing.

MS cannot deliver successful stuff on the web at scale. They can deliver unsuccessful stuff on the web at scale, they can deliver successful stuff that turns out to be inconsequential for their bottom line on the web in the long-term (AJAX came from MS), but it's just not in their DNA to take over the web. They had lots of chances to do it during the last 20 years or so, they had all the silver bullets at their dispo…

> MS cannot deliver successful stuff on the web at scale.

It's this type of confidence that you come back to HN over and over for.

Let's ignore Azure, Office 365, and Microsoft's other online properties. In just video games: Microsoft owns and operates the Xbox network with over 100 million active monthly users[1]. That runs on the internet with all the features of a social network and more. I think they can deliver successful stuff at web scale OK, whatever their other shortcomings.

1 - https://hothardware.com/news/xbox-live-surpasses-100-million...

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#583

At this point, Microsoft should do whatever it can to make a deal with Apple to place a ChatGPT powered platform in the iPhone/i Devices. Most of the people using "computers" nowadays do it through mobile phones, and Google has a strong grip in that market with Android, with only Apple giving them some competition. Thus the only platform where Microsoft could really compete is in iOS. If Microsoft + Apple could get t…

Isn't ChatGPT still like super expensive to use and run? At least compared to Google queries, but maybe in general too? While Google still pays Apple a ton od money to remain the default search engine... which is close to zero work on Apple's side.

Microsoft would then need to pay for ChatGPT computation, model retraining, maybe testing of deployments/upgrades, maybe sponsor Apple's initial development efforts, plus pay for the expensive deal to be Apple's default choice.

Am I understanding the problem correctly? It looks like a lot of work and very expensive if I'm getting it right.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So my question is, how hard of a problem is that with LLMs? I get the sense that LLMs are trained on a very large data set all at once, but that it is difficult to incrementally update them with new data. It's the opposite. Getting an LLM to learn the basics of grammar and paragraph-level language structure is the "hard" part. Once you have that, further fine-tuning, specialisation, or other incremental changes are…

It's not about "Well behaved." All we're teaching it is our biases.

They’re the same thing. Good behaviour just means following accepted social rules.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#585
post #206

I’m curious to hear why Google isn’t going to win in this AI arms race. The way I see it, Google: * is effectively the gateway to the internet, owning the most popular website in the world, mobile OS, and browser * has infinite LIVE data, both unstructured and structured (knowledge graph) * has infinite compute resources * employs the world’s best AI scientists and invests heavily in AI * has decade(s) of experience…

You could make a similar argument about companies with "infinite" resources that reached the highest peaks of technology at the moment and nowadays are mostly irrelevant: IBM, Xerox, Nokia, Blackberry, Yahoo... Maybe the question is, why do you think Google is different from these companies?

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#586
post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those new language models are "Google killers" because they reset all the assumptions that people have made about search for several decades. Imagine that people start using those chat bots massively as a replacement for Google search. Then the notion of keyword disappears. Google AdSense becomes mostly irrelevant. Of course, Google is a giant today with a history of machine learning innovation. So they have a good c…

All these conversations have one glaring omission. As it stands right now, ChatGPT is a net negative on the ecosystem it exists in. What does that mean? ChatGPT extracts value from the ecosystem by hoovering up primary sources to provide answers, but what value does ChatGPT give back to these primary sources? What incentivizes content creators to continue producing for ChatGPT? Right now, nothing. ChatGPT (or its des…

They don't need to solve that problem. Lots of things cannabilise on others without needing to pay them back to be viable. Wikipedia is really just a collection of sources, summarized. It owes nothing to the authors of the source material and does not seek to redress the balance. Google is a sophisticated filter for sources, it doesn't need to pay anything back to them to provide value for the searcher. Same with chatgpt, it filters and transforms its source material but owes nothing in return. News will still be published, data will still be generated at scale.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#587

I agree this is bland corporate speak. But it reminded me of a question that's been floating around: A number of pundits, here on HN and elsewhere, keep referring to these large language models are "google killers." This just doesn't make sense to me. It feels like Google can easily pivot its ad engine to work with the AI-driven chat systems. It can augment answers with links to additional sources of information, be…

Those new language models are "Google killers" because they reset all the assumptions that people have made about search for several decades. Imagine that people start using those chat bots massively as a replacement for Google search. Then the notion of keyword disappears. Google AdSense becomes mostly irrelevant. Of course, Google is a giant today with a history of machine learning innovation. So they have a good c…

was this comment satire?

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#588

At this point, Microsoft should do whatever it can to make a deal with Apple to place a ChatGPT powered platform in the iPhone/i Devices. Most of the people using "computers" nowadays do it through mobile phones, and Google has a strong grip in that market with Android, with only Apple giving them some competition. Thus the only platform where Microsoft could really compete is in iOS. If Microsoft + Apple could get t…

Microsoft has a much larger platform than iOS which also happens to be where people do most of their actual work. Apple should probably be paying them

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So my question is, how hard of a problem is that with LLMs? I get the sense that LLMs are trained on a very large data set all at once, but that it is difficult to incrementally update them with new data. It's the opposite. Getting an LLM to learn the basics of grammar and paragraph-level language structure is the "hard" part. Once you have that, further fine-tuning, specialisation, or other incremental changes are…

It's not about "Well behaved." All we're teaching it is our biases.

The internet does not accurately reflect our biases. It is much cheaper online to post bad content, or hateful content, then "good" content. In real life, almost the opposite is true.
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