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Bard and new AI features in Search

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Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#491

Post by rchaud »

adrianmonk wrote: post #253
andrewstuart wrote: post #60

Lotus 123, Borland and Wordperfect were at the top of the software world. They failed to make the transition to GUIs/Windows. Microsoft missed the arrival of the web. Microsoft also missed the mobile revolution and ended up with zero mobile operating system market share. Internet Explorer, having vanquished Netscape, declared "job done" and stopped developing the web browser further, only to be cast to irrelevance fo…

> Microsoft also missed the mobile revolution and ended up with zero mobile operating system market share. OTOH, Google got scooped when in January 2007, Apple changed computing by launching the iPhone. But, though it had not been announced, Google already had the Android project in progress, which pivoted to a more iPhone-like concept (full-device touchscreen, no keyboard) and ended up doing OK in the market. Presum…

> and ended up doing OK in the market.

Thanks in no small part to Samsung. Google honestly would probably not have gone beyond their initial Blackberry-style design approach without the iPhone. And Samsung's Android flavour pushed hardware capabilities way past what Google provided out of the box.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#493

Post by [deleted] »

baron816 wrote: post #484
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #304

Question for AI experts out there: ChatGPT is awesome, but it is obviously hamstrung by the fact that it crawled the web at the end of 2021, so all of its data is essentially "frozen" and it doesn't "know" of any topics that occurred after 2021. Seems to me like the next "holy grail" in large language models is building a model that can be continually updated. If Google can achieve that, I think they could leapfrog O…

edit: removing comment. I don’t think what I wrote was confidential, but I don’t want to find out the hard way.

[deleted]

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#494

Post by silisili »

jacooper wrote: post #364
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #304

Question for AI experts out there: ChatGPT is awesome, but it is obviously hamstrung by the fact that it crawled the web at the end of 2021, so all of its data is essentially "frozen" and it doesn't "know" of any topics that occurred after 2021. Seems to me like the next "holy grail" in large language models is building a model that can be continually updated. If Google can achieve that, I think they could leapfrog O…

There is already LLM search engines out there https://perplexity.ai

Oh I quite like this.

I asked it, conversationally as I would to a human, "when is the super bowl", "what channel is it on", and "who is playing" in that order, and it answered all three perfectly.

For fun, I asked it a more complex question - "will ford stock go up or down", and it answered with -

Analysts have a median target of $13.00 for Ford stock in the next 12 months[1], with a high estimate of $21.00 and a low estimate of $10.00[1]. Over the past 50 years, Ford Motor has on average risen by 15.7% over the course of one year[2]. Therefore, it is likely that Ford stock will go up in the next year[3][4].

I'm going to use the heck out of this thing.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#495

Post by dragonwriter »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #417
shawntan wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the earlier responses said, if it is retrieving information from an external data source, that would be a much easier way to update things. REALM ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.08909 ) comes to mind as an example of active work in this area. Updating a monolithic LLM seems like a harder problem at the moment, and probably would fall under the umbrella of "continual learning", though that sub-field would have their…

> Like the earlier responses said, if it is retrieving information from an external data source I was under the impression it went through like a multi-month long ultra expensive training process involving many GPUs on terabytes of data "snapshotted" point in time. Is it possible to do this at a smaller scale once a day at the end of the day with "all new content scraped from the Internet nightly"?

> Is it possible to do this at a smaller scale once a day at the end of the day with "all new content scraped from the Internet nightly"?

If the model has the ability to browse the web (the tech behind ChatGPT by design does, but it is disabled in ChatGPT proper, which is, in some respects, a conservative public demo) and incorporate data in responses, this can “cover” a bit for staleness in the base model.

Even if you can't retrain the model fully daily, with enough resources [0] you can have multiple training sessions running concurrently and just swap in new backend models behind the interface as they arr ready, which, combined with browsing ability. acheives something very similar. This obviously, barring an enormous advantage in underlying tech or access to relevant training data for one player, works most in favor of whoever can subsidize the biggest hardware commitment.

(Given the different training stages, there may be cost efficiency advantages to, say, running less-frequent iterations of the lowest-level training stage but more frequent iterations of the higher-level ones.)

[0] probably an utterly ludicrous investment for all but a handful of firms, but for a ~$trillion firm where this hits very close to their core business? Not so ludicrous.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#496

Post by dubcanada »

coredog64 wrote: post #451
deltree7 wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delusional to think Ads work only on Keywords. Where there is human attention, there will always be ads. The more context, the better ads.

There’s a smaller surface are for ads in a targeted chat session. At present, Google can show me ads on the results page. Each subsequent result that I view is an additional slice of my attention. It’s possible that Google can deliver a few targeted ads, but what if they can’t? What about the rest of the market that’s now gone? Possible that all those missed opportunities remove the ability to discover price.

You completely ignore the fact that companies will show ads everywhere, there is no reason that they would not try to inject ads into chat.

"Here is the answer to your question about oranges. But did you know Tropicana is made from 100% real orange juice?"

"A project manager is a ... Often the software project managers use is Zoho Projects for the best agile sprint planning"

If they can put ads in it, there will be ads in it.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#497

Post by ancientworldnow »

runnerup wrote: post #470
coredog64 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a smaller surface are for ads in a targeted chat session. At present, Google can show me ads on the results page. Each subsequent result that I view is an additional slice of my attention. It’s possible that Google can deliver a few targeted ads, but what if they can’t? What about the rest of the market that’s now gone? Possible that all those missed opportunities remove the ability to discover price.

The ads could be slipped right into the chat itself.

Which is almost assuredly FAR more effective.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#498

Post by snek_case »

karmasimida wrote: post #480
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #304

Question for AI experts out there: ChatGPT is awesome, but it is obviously hamstrung by the fact that it crawled the web at the end of 2021, so all of its data is essentially "frozen" and it doesn't "know" of any topics that occurred after 2021. Seems to me like the next "holy grail" in large language models is building a model that can be continually updated. If Google can achieve that, I think they could leapfrog O…

I would say continue update LLM isn't a very good idea, the compliance issue will be huge. Also feeding data without quality check seems like a sure recipe for disaster. For the foreseeable future, LLM will be used for a unique set of queries that are more operational, like a consult, not for stuff that are informational, like what news is published today. If your query is relying on the model to be update to date wi…

The obvious fix (which people are already working on) is to allow the system to look up information. E.g.: give it access to wikipedia.

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#499

Post by Eduard »

asim wrote: post #224

People forget that Larry Page's ultimate goal was to have Google predict what you wanted before you even asked for it. This isn't about hype. This isn't about beating the competition. This is about delivering on a 3 decade dream that's now coming to fruition and Sundar just happens to be the one leading the org as it manifests in the real world. We're going to end up with 10+ vertically integrated AI solutions like t…

[flagged]

Re: Bard and new AI features in Search

#500

Post by tiborsaas »

wiremine wrote: post #232

I agree this is bland corporate speak. But it reminded me of a question that's been floating around: A number of pundits, here on HN and elsewhere, keep referring to these large language models are "google killers." This just doesn't make sense to me. It feels like Google can easily pivot its ad engine to work with the AI-driven chat systems. It can augment answers with links to additional sources of information, be…

If I'm looking for a specific answer, then with my googling skills, I can easily find an article or tutorial written for a target audience in mind.

If I on the other hand use generative AI, then the answer (and hopefully correct one) would be generated only for me. This is the personal touch Google currently misses and I guess it's appealing for many people.

Currently LLM-s are not Google killers, they can't find me a restaurant, a nice watch or other stuff I'd pay money for. Yet.

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