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Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

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Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#181

Post by danenania »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #167
epistemer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lifted for 30 years. The standard bullshit line in the fitness industry has always been "everyone else is wrong". Practically what every single trainer ever in the world has said. The reason is because of all the things I have done in my life, lifting is the most trivially simple activity there is. It is as complex as shoveling dirt. The only way to differentiate if trying to make money is to bullshit. Pick th…

Yup. Everything else is either bull shit or an attempt to optimize. Unless you are a body builder or a pro athlete you really should focus on consistency more than optimization. Getting 1% better results for the average person is going to be nullified by the beers they drink on the weekend/the multiple days they skip because they dont feel like working out/any number of other normal life actives that are not optimal.…

Another tip in this vein that I've found helpful when it comes to strength training, especially on days you feel tired or unmotivated, is to not count the reps. Just do as many as you can with good form and then stop. Trying to always hit some number creates unnecessary stress and frustration when you can't get there, and causes injury when form breaks down and/or you push too far.

The point is to fatigue the muscle, not do some particular number of reps. If you're feeling good and want to test yourself or go for a PR, that's great, but if it makes you feel bad or you start dreading workouts, stop counting!

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#182

Post by khazhoux »

epistemer wrote: post #66
jasondigitized wrote: post #7

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

I have lifted for 30 years. The standard bullshit line in the fitness industry has always been "everyone else is wrong". Practically what every single trainer ever in the world has said. The reason is because of all the things I have done in my life, lifting is the most trivially simple activity there is. It is as complex as shoveling dirt. The only way to differentiate if trying to make money is to bullshit. Pick th…

> lifting is the most trivially simple activity there is

Lucky you. For me, I always hit plateaus after a couple of months, and then in the past have given up several times after no progress over many months.

This time, starting 13 months ago, I'm determined to stick with it, but still it's sloooooow, despite hours at the gym every other day (no exceptions!) putting in the work. So I'm definitely interested in seeing if there's some other approach that might be better -- more reps, higher weights, more/less variety, less rest period, more frequency, ....? Maybe the answer is I just need to be at the gym lifting hard 3 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#183

Post by sschueller »

wwqrd wrote: post #39

TLDR; More volume per session/week = more growth? So really it becomes a balance of maximising volume against sustainable recovery.

One big issue I see is all these people following programs made for people using PEDs and those programs consider the "lack" or small amount of recovery required when on PEDs.

If you are natural you need to very cerfully monitor your recovery and how often you train each muscle. Especially if you get older

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#185

Post by SECProto »

beezle wrote: post #108
SECProto wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using dumbbells instead of a bar also builds stronger stabilization muscles, and doesn't let your strong side compensate for weak side.

True but once you start getting heavy it can be difficult to get into the proper starting position for some lifts as well finishing safely. YMMV.

That is definitely true! Very useful in the "I want to start developing stronger functional muscles" context, but will only get you to a certain point

If memory serves, last time I was lifting weights regularly, I could bench 225lb with a bar, but only 140ish (2x70lb) with dumbbells.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#186

Post by paulpauper »

jasondigitized wrote: post #7

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman

And he cannot even walk well and his back is fucked up. not exactly worth it

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#187

Post by jeltz »

iamacyborg wrote: post #162
jeltz wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a runner I agree. Sure there is more to it but volume is the single most important factor.

I still have no idea how folks can manage 100+ mile weeks. I struggle staying uninjured hitting ~10km a day.

I think patience. I have never myself gone above 70 km per week without injuring myself, but I always increase too fast which works fine up to 60-70 km/week but above that I injure myself.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#188

Post by short_sells_poo »

iamacyborg wrote: post #151
leidenfrost wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who want to look athletic enough, work a full time job and still have free time, sure. Actual competitive bodybuilding is far more complicated.

> Actual competitive bodybuilding is far more complicated. Sure, but that's a general truism. People focus too much on the 1% micro-optimisations instead of nailing the 99% that produces the largest rewards. I like how Steve Magness puts it[^1] > Good, solid consistent work stacked month after month, year after year is what leads to better performance. [^1]: https://twitter.com/stevemagness/status/1493946400442392589…

This 100%, but I think it is also just the proliferation of information today.

99% of the gain is about a very simple set of exercises. I maintain that most people would get a superb musculature with just cycling/running, squats, deadlifts and bench presses (ignoring pre-existing injuries). 4 exercises where the most complex machinery is a bike, and even that can be replaced with running. Doing it consistently is the key.

But then two problems happen:

1. People try to find shortcuts to make things easier. This is basic human nature. 2. While looking for ways of making it easier, a huge pile of salesmen insert themselves into people's attention, peddling the latest program, diet, fad, complex equipment (hello Peloton), etc. At that point, anyone who doesn't have >10 years of experience with their own body will simply be lost and unable to discern true good advice from drivel.

As pointed out before, there's no money to be made, no "value to be added" to 4 dead simple exercises with a one off expenditure. There's no subscription to be sold, nothing can be turned into a service if the equipment lasts several lifetimes. The weights you buy yourself can be passed down to your kids, and they will likely be able to pass it down to their kids. A hunk of chromed steel can last a very long time, the only thing you have to buy is maybe running shoes or gears for your bike.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#189

Post by short_sells_poo »

leidenfrost wrote: post #176
mountainb wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to put in so much effort to look big that it just does not happen by accident. If you just want to lose the belly all you have to do is stop eating. No exercise required. Resume eating when your body finishes eating the belly.

I don't want my body to eat up my muscle mass in the process.

You really don't have to worry about accidentally building too much muscle. It takes a ridiculous effort. I'm talking about multiple hours of training a day, 6 days a week. If you go and spend an hour in the gym lifting weights 3x a week and do some cardio before each session, you'll get a nicely shaped body with well defined muscles but you definitely aren't going to be even close to looking like Ronnie Coleman, trust me.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#190

Post by asoneth »

ltadeut wrote: post #122
hackernewds wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to know about this subject. What is your take on this article then?

If I look at it through the lens of the last 10-years of "science-based" strength/bodybuilding training, there's nothing surprising there. # On rest intervals His description is pretty spot on. The rest times mostly affect the amount of volume you can do (volume is generally defined as #reps x #sets, though I prefer #reps x #sets x weight). That's actually something really useful to know because it allows you to get…

As someone who knows nothing about this field your post was particularly enlightening. I am especially grateful that you have defined most of the terms and acronyms you used.
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