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Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

mennohenselmans.com

171–180 of 248 posts

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#171
post #31

This article is focused on growth in muscle _size_ over growth in muscle _strength_. The two are related, but it's pretty well-established that you can bias your training towards one or the other. You can see the difference between experienced powerlifters and bodybuilders. PLs move heavier weights than BBs, but the latter generally have more muscle mass. I think training for strength has more everyday health benefit…

There are significant caveats to the term "strength" though.

Powerlifters use every possible technique to reduce effort (e.g. reducing range of motion) in order to lift heavier weights. Obviously this is a good idea for them since the amount of weight lifted is what wins them competitions. But this is a very specific form of strength which isn't generally applicable.

> I think training for strength has more everyday health benefits than bodybuilding

I think it's the opposite actually, due to the above reason (training for general strength is better for most people than optimizing 3 lifts). If you find a way to reduce bench press range of motion and this gives you an extra 5 kg on the bar, this doesn't make you any healthier.

> its training methodology (train large muscle groups with high weight and lower reps ~2x/week) at the novice and intermediate level is much less time-consuming.

You could train large muscle groups as a novice bodybuilder as well. The main difference is that you don't only focus on increasing the weight lifted, but also on putting as much stress on the muscle as possible at a slightly higher rep count (somewhere between 5 and 15 is typical). Doing sets of 5-15 isn't significantly more time consuming than sets of 1-5, since in both cases most of the time is taken up by resting between sets.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to stop eating carbs, but not eating carbs has the possibility[1] to save off some gluconeogenesis by subbing fat for muscle while in ketosis, retaining more gains from the bulk. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/

What kind of fat reserves do you think competition bodybuilders normally have? Also note that dipping below some level of body fat is actively harmful to your body.

Usually it's something between 4 and 8% but I wouldn't call it "reserves". That's already too low.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#173
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he's saying the article is wrong. People love hate bro science but most bodybuilders go through a lot of trial and error to find the right diet. And they don't meassure success by looks* but by performance (eg. new PR). The article basically thinks that bodybuilders don't actually know what they are doing when most actually do. Maybe not all understand the exact science (although some certainly do) but they do kn…

This reminds me of some MMO players reaction when they realize they have been minmaxing their build wrong. Having a large normative population behaving in self-evidence reporting and response is NOT a guaranteed path to the most efficient route. Especially so when the feedback loop is months and the input loop is 3 times weekly. For instance, the groupthink meta will optimize for time/schedule efficiency, for social…

I’ve experienced a lot of this phenomenon since I bought a power rack for my living room and slowly expanded my home gym to include fixed and adjustable dumbbells, MonkeyFeet, ez-curl bar, etc.

All of the online discussion and experimentation revolve around time limited gym workouts that make no sense when I can do a few sets a dozen times a day while taking breaks away from the desk, in between downtime while cooking or doing other chores, or while listening to teleconference meetings.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#174
post #41

I have been weight training for almost 30 years. I've tried just about every program, split and variation under the sun, and I've seen and practiced for a time fads that have come and gone. In the last six months, I have changed things up. I now train with low volume per muscle group (on average, 4-6 sets per muscle group, reps per set between 6 and 12, pushing very hard, close to exercise, not muscle, failure, which…

> when I cannot complete 1 or 2 additional reps with proper form

Thanks for mentioning the last part. That "proper form" bit is waaaaaaaaaay overlooked and even the definition of "proper form" can be ambiguous. A lot of people - myself included on SO many embarrassing occasions - tend to cheat out of proper form. This resulted in injuries that have left me permanently unable to do some exercises.

Like many others do, I got frustrated with lack of growth so I would try and push through extra reps or higher weights while neglecting what my body was telling me. I'd read threads like this and see somebody talk about how moving to lower rep ranges suddenly packed on way more muscle, so I'd change up my workout to do the same; except this compromised proper form which then lead to injuries due to the additional stress by heavier weights. Even after recovering from an injury, I would take caution for a few months, get frustrated, and repeat the cycle over again with more injuries.

You talk about variance here and that's absolutely a topic that is not discussed enough. For example I'm a person with very low bone density. This makes heavier lifts even more dangerous when not done with proper form. Someone with good skeletal structure might cause mild injury where someone like me could end up with a permanent disability making the same mistakes. None of these articles or guides say that though. They treat all bodies like with a one-size fits all approach and it's very dangerous.

These days I use a modified Bowflex Ultimate Machine (I've removed the rods and replaced with actual weights using additional pulleys), so everything is controlled by cables. This allows me to keep a somewhat better form due to the angle at which the movements are restricted. It's not as good as proper machine weights, but it's a good trade-off between free weights and machine weights. All my exercises are lighter weight and try to avoid exerting pressure on the spine or other joints. Every exercise is done SLOWLY with careful attention to how much pressure is being exerted on my muscles, tendons, etc. If I can't keep proper form, the weight is too high or I've gone to "failure". No cheat reps. The rep range is generally in the 10-15 area but varies depending on exercise and how much strain I feel during the movement. It's worked very well for me the last 5 years.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#175
post #79

99% of all gym goers are so far from maxing out that the answer is always "more". Unless I'm waiting for the rack you're using, in which case 3RM with 30 second rests are best.

Yes and those are the ones that actually show up consistently.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I want to look athletic enough so I can put a shirt on without having my belly being the part that stands out the most. I don't want to look BIG necessarily.

You have to put in so much effort to look big that it just does not happen by accident. If you just want to lose the belly all you have to do is stop eating. No exercise required. Resume eating when your body finishes eating the belly.

I don't want my body to eat up my muscle mass in the process.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#177

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

My old trainer's version was "the reason everyone doesn't lift is it's hard." His motivational saying was "the weight's not gonna lift itself."

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#178
post #41

I have been weight training for almost 30 years. I've tried just about every program, split and variation under the sun, and I've seen and practiced for a time fads that have come and gone. In the last six months, I have changed things up. I now train with low volume per muscle group (on average, 4-6 sets per muscle group, reps per set between 6 and 12, pushing very hard, close to exercise, not muscle, failure, which…

What is the magnesium glycinate for?

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#179
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I don't wanna look like a bodybuilder but if I could stay skinny and shark the highland games I'd be tickled pink.

This. I want to look athletic enough so I can put a shirt on without having my belly being the part that stands out the most. I don't want to look BIG necessarily.

I'll go farther, I want to be as strong as I can be, at something near my minimum healthy weight. Weight is wear and tear on my body I don't want. Sadly, I'm very far from that goal... My appetite is just so intense after lifting, it is really hard not to eat big, so I end up dirty bulking and never have cut.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#180
Let's not overlook the role of drugs, not just anabolic steroids, but also drugs for weight loss. Most, if not all, of these impressive physiques online are the result of drug use. Most people will never achieve results even close to that of a dedicated drug user in terms of size, leanness, strength, etc. Before the widespread use of drugs, most people appeared flat. Even a little drugs make such a huge difference.
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