Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong • Hacker News Board

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#131

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #86

Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he's saying the article is wrong. People love hate bro science but most bodybuilders go through a lot of trial and error to find the right diet. And they don't meassure success by looks* but by performance (eg. new PR). The article basically thinks that bodybuilders don't actually know what they are doing when most actually do. Maybe not all understand the exact science (although some certainly do) but they do kn…

"The article basically thinks that X don't actually know what they are doing when most actually do." I see this everywhere (and I suspect this isn't news to anyone). "How hard can farming really be?" "We just have to disrupt with tech synergies." And whatnot. I find this mindset to be offensive and such a self-own by limiting one's understanding of the state of things. Bodybuilding, and in general fitness, asks for a…

I just can't follow this perspective. When someone explains that the conventional wisdom on things I'm good at is wrong, I feel curious, not disrespected. Of course I'm trying to do my best when I'm whittling or system designing - but maybe I'm implicitly working under a constraint that isn't necessary, or maybe my intuitive sense of how well I'm doing is systematically skewed in some way.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#132

Post by XFrequentist » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

YMMV, but I recommend more people try High Intensity Training (HIT). HIT explicitly contradicts several of the (well-supported) claims in the article, but I've personally found it effective, and I think there's a good case that it's a better fit for most adult lifestyles.

[ETA: Just to clarify, HIT is different from the more widely-known HIIT. This wikipedia article[1] is a good introduction, and the book "Body By Science" is an excellent deeper dive.]

I'm a 40-ish male with a long history of resistance training, and have tried many variations of sets/reps/volume/rest etc over the years.

For a few years now I've been doing a version of HIT, basically single sets (to failure), no (or little) rest between sets, full-body training once a week, supervised by a trainer. It sucks, but it's over quickly.

It's great. I'm significantly stronger than I've been in many years, have remained injury-free throughout (rare for me), and play competitive basketball several times a week without issue (beyond my inconsistent shooting).

The article cites its sources, has solid (for exercise science) evidence backing its claims, and is pretty convincing - if you're a college student with plenty of time, and you're seeking to maximize muscle growth, then yes there's a good case that you should do several workouts a week with more rest between sets.

However, if you're a working stiff who just wants to get it done efficiently, HIT is much easier to fit in a busy schedule. I think it's worth considering for the median person reading fitness articles on HN.

For most people, I suspect HIT is essentially just as effective as the type of protocol advocated in the article, but that's just a hunch and not a claim I could support with anything beyond personal experience.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_training

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#133

Post by puszczyk » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

ltadeut wrote: post #122

hackernewds wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to know about this subject. What is your take on this article then?

If I look at it through the lens of the last 10-years of "science-based" strength/bodybuilding training, there's nothing surprising there. # On rest intervals His description is pretty spot on. The rest times mostly affect the amount of volume you can do (volume is generally defined as #reps x #sets, though I prefer #reps x #sets x weight). That's actually something really useful to know because it allows you to get…

Thank you for taking time to write the detailed answer. Not my subject, but I enjoy reading such takes on HN.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#134

Post by btrautsc » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

epistemer wrote: post #66

jasondigitized wrote: post #7

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

I have lifted for 30 years. The standard bullshit line in the fitness industry has always been "everyone else is wrong". Practically what every single trainer ever in the world has said. The reason is because of all the things I have done in my life, lifting is the most trivially simple activity there is. It is as complex as shoveling dirt. The only way to differentiate if trying to make money is to bullshit. Pick th…

This is one of my all-time favorite HN quotes: "Pick the weights up, put them down, eat food. It just not that complicated." Sincerely brought a smile to my face.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#135

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #126

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the idea is that the minute you're moving your elbows you're no longer getting any training benefit from the activity?

The idea is that you are increasing your chance of injury because you've hit short term hypotrophy of the CNS/muscle. "To failure" is a relative term. Someone who has lifting for a very long time knows their body very well. "To failure" some days might mean they don't even finish their warmup.

The reason I started this whole conversation was in response to the quote that failure is “until you can’t maintain perfect form”, which implies it's not a relative term.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#136

Post by atlantic » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:18 PM UTC

epistemer wrote: post #66

jasondigitized wrote: post #7

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

I have lifted for 30 years. The standard bullshit line in the fitness industry has always been "everyone else is wrong". Practically what every single trainer ever in the world has said. The reason is because of all the things I have done in my life, lifting is the most trivially simple activity there is. It is as complex as shoveling dirt. The only way to differentiate if trying to make money is to bullshit. Pick th…

No offence, but as someone who worked in construction, shovelling is actually not simple at all. And working with a pick is even more complex. There are all kinds of optimizations you can introduce to avoid back injury and to maintain a steady rhythm over an eight-hour workday.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#137

Post by jeffreyrogers » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

moneywoes wrote: post #130

goldfeld wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However pump up the T and your hairline will run away from you fast, then your hair will dropset to failure.

Isn’t there something you can take to prevent that from happening?

Yes, it's not really the testosterone that causes hair loss, it's the DHT the testosterone is converted too and there are drugs and topical foams that can prevent that conversion from happening in the scalp. There are other medications and treatments that work differently as well. It's a complicated topic. Also some people just aren't very susceptible to hair loss.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#138

Post by jeltz » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:21 PM UTC

derelicta wrote: post #50

marban wrote: post #29

I used to run a half-marathon every single day for close to two years until a bone fracture knocked me out (obvious in hindsight). Added daily weight training after my recovery and I'm now in the best shape of my life (mid 40s). Right after nutrition and sleep, it's the best you can do for well-being and mobility in daily life — No need to go overboard with all kinds of machines, let alone stims.

Impressive. I managed to do half-marathons bi-monthly for 6 months straight and that was already great by my standards. The thing I always ask myself is: if I train too much, won't I get bored of jogging ?

You can always join a running group. I do 25 km every Sunday with my running group.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#139

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:22 PM UTC

atlantic wrote: post #136

epistemer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lifted for 30 years. The standard bullshit line in the fitness industry has always been "everyone else is wrong". Practically what every single trainer ever in the world has said. The reason is because of all the things I have done in my life, lifting is the most trivially simple activity there is. It is as complex as shoveling dirt. The only way to differentiate if trying to make money is to bullshit. Pick th…

No offence, but as someone who worked in construction, shovelling is actually not simple at all. And working with a pick is even more complex. There are all kinds of optimizations you can introduce to avoid back injury and to maintain a steady rhythm over an eight-hour workday.

[deleted]

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#140

Post by snordgren » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #64

jasondigitized wrote: post #7

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

> "Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I don't wanna look like a bodybuilder but if I could stay skinny and shark the highland games I'd be tickled pink.

Accidentally becoming too muscular simply does not happen unless you start injecting. Don't worry about it.