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Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

mennohenselmans.com

121–130 of 248 posts

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#121
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>someone who regularly does special exercises to make their muscles bigger[0] [0] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/bodyb...

The difference is that how much weight they lift is a side effect - the real goal is appearance. Unlike, say, Olympic power lifting.

Semantic pedantry here: power-lifting[1] is not an Olympic sport. Weight-lifting[2] is.

Olympic weight-lifting is constituted of the snatch and the clean and jerk. Power-lifting is normally constituted of the "big three" lifts: bench press, squat, and deadlift.

There is also an informally defined idea of "power-building"[3] which is sort of a cross between bodybuilding and power-lifting.

And then there's crossfit, and strongman, and ... Anyway, enough said about all of that. :-)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerlifting

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_weightlifting

[3]: https://www.muscleandfitness.com/routine/workouts/workout-ro...

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment makes no sense in the context of Menno’s work. He’s a bodybuilder, coaches bodybuilders, and his content targets bodybuilders. You’ve just built a straw man argument. When you say “then you stop eating carbs to get shredded” is just bollocks. No real bodybuilder stops eating carbs to get shredded. We (I say we because I am a contest bodybuilder) tend to reduce carb intake during a cut or show prep becaus…

You seem to know about this subject. What is your take on this article then?

If I look at it through the lens of the last 10-years of "science-based" strength/bodybuilding training, there's nothing surprising there.

# On rest intervals

His description is pretty spot on. The rest times mostly affect the amount of volume you can do (volume is generally defined as #reps x #sets, though I prefer #reps x #sets x weight).

That's actually something really useful to know because it allows you to get the required stimulus when you are in an inadequate situation.

For example, imagine someone generally trains their legs with barbell back squats and hacks squats. The weight would be fairly high for those lifts. But if you find yourself in a situation where you don't have access or can't use those lifts (injury), you can leverage the lower rest periods to hammer the shit out of your quads with leg extensions or lunges and get the stimulus you need.

It doesn't mean you should only do that though.

It's pretty well accepted that at some point movements become "stale": your body doesn't recover that well after performing the same movement for long periods (e.g. >6 months), so you need to rotate them out. Not because "the muscle got used to it", but because your joints are aching.

Again, understanding how to manipulate rest periods can aid in this rotation.

Another thing is time availability. Doing squats and resting 5 minutes might be fine for muscle growth, but you only have so much time you can spend at the gym. So you need to balance that out as well when you are training.

# On training frequency

Nothing to say there, targeting a muscle more than once a week is pretty much a given.

Even ignoring the need for frequent growth stimuli, you can reason about hitting the same body part multiple times a week this way: Say your chest max recoverable volume (MRV) is around 15 hard (0-3 reps from failure) sets a week.

If you only train chest once a week, how good can your chest session possibly be when you have to do so much work?

0-3 reps from failure is extremely hard. If you do 4 sets on the incline bench, 4 sets on the flat bench, you still got another 7 sets to go on other exercises. The accumulated fatigue throughout the session makes it highly unlikely you'll really be able to push your chest significantly for the remaining sets.

Why not split your training between 2 sessions? 8 sets on one day, and then another 7 sets later in the week.

You'll get much higher quality sessions like that because fatigue won't be crushing you.

# On training intensity / failure

Again, nothing revelatory there. It's well accepted that you want to train close to failure but not necessarily go to failure.

That's why auto-regulated training talks about 0-3 reps in reserve (RIR).

I've alluded to this in the previous section but I should make it clear: Every exercise you pick has a signal-to-fatigue ratio (referred to as SFR in the literature). Going to failure may be a good way to drive muscle growth, but it's extremely fatiguing. You can't possible survive a 5 week training block if you're going to failure in every single session and exercise.

Once you understand that and that multiple rep-ranges work, you can pair exercises that are high-signal and high-fatigue (e.g., barbell squats, deadlifts) with exercises that are high-signal and low fatigue (e.g., leg extensions, leg curls). If you're dieting down and are energy depleted, it would then make sense to avoid high-fatigue exercises like squats (or at least minimize the amount of volume dedicated to them).

A common approach is to increase closeness to failure as you progress through the training block, reserving failure or at least 0 reps in reserve to the last week of the cycle. After that you hop on a deload week and drop fatigue to start a new block.

You may also want to vary rep ranges and RIR targets because after a while training in the same ranges may get boring :)

# What I disagree with Menno

I don't agree with the part about getting a pump and soreness. I agree that their presence is NOT necessary to cause muscle growth, but in my experience (and other people in the industry like the folks at Revive Stronger and Renaissance periodization), pumps and soreness are good indicators that a training session was stimulative enough.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#123
I think the points he makes in the article actually perfectly match the "broscience" in powerlifting and olympic weightlifting. There it's all about long rest between sets, low reps, tracking weekly pounds lifted, hitting the same muscles many times per week, etc. I was nodding along at everything thinking "this is obvious isn't it" and had to remind myself he's writing about a different field.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#124
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm planning out a home/garage gym now. Is there any equipment you recommend? Or ones that people should stay away from?

Rogue is the gold standard but I honestly haven't seen any deficiencies with other smaller brands like Rep or Titan Fitness. I don't know your fitness level, but if you have the space I always recommend the basics: squat rack if you have the time (can also function as pull-up and bench), dumbbells, curl bar if possible, and free weights. I'd keep an eye on used/craigslist listings as well, with the pandemic lifting,…

Rep has been fine for me as well. And much cheaper than Rogue.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#125

You can build muscle on virtually any weight training program. Train at the maximum amount of intensity you can maintain tension under for N seconds, eat protein, get sleep. Even with bad form you'll build something. There are ghosts in the machine. Genetics play a big factor. Some people are genetic freaks and others are juiced, and the economic incentive is there to tell us that you too can become the Incredible Hu…

Thank you for saying this.

All I would add is that the sooner you acknowledge your genetic limitations the sooner you can start training within them. Maybe you won’t look like Schwarzenegger or Ronnie Coleman, but Brad Pitt in Fight Club is a reasonable target (assuming aesthetics are a goal - they don’t have to be!)

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#126
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good example of "to failure" is when you can't perform a lift symmetrically, or you find yourself cheating by e.g. moving your elbows, lifting your heels, etc.

So the idea is that the minute you're moving your elbows you're no longer getting any training benefit from the activity?

The idea is that you are increasing your chance of injury because you've hit short term hypotrophy of the CNS/muscle.

"To failure" is a relative term. Someone who has lifting for a very long time knows their body very well. "To failure" some days might mean they don't even finish their warmup.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#127
post #62

Please be aware that scientist brad schoenfeld that is being cited throughout the article. Has changed his opinion on some topics and other topics he even did a 180. The human body is very complex system with balances and counter balances. So almost any statement can be true and false, depending on the context. Interview with Brad schoenfeld where he explains his latests thoughts on training. https://youtu.be/SUy6HwO…

That’s literally how science works? Hypertrophy has largely been settled and the main mechanisms and science underneath are well known by now. Call is post-2017. Source: up 40lb of Dexa scan muscle from 2014-2023, at 15lb greater body weight. Not rocket science. Strongly recommend Renaissance Periodization (the hundred of hours of lectures on YouTube if that’s your thing, the two main textbooks, the training template…

In your experience is there a programming silver bullet for those who want to build an aesthetic physique? ( men in particular) like the highest roi

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#128
post #41

I have been weight training for almost 30 years. I've tried just about every program, split and variation under the sun, and I've seen and practiced for a time fads that have come and gone. In the last six months, I have changed things up. I now train with low volume per muscle group (on average, 4-6 sets per muscle group, reps per set between 6 and 12, pushing very hard, close to exercise, not muscle, failure, which…

May I ask your split?

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment makes no sense in the context of Menno’s work. He’s a bodybuilder, coaches bodybuilders, and his content targets bodybuilders. You’ve just built a straw man argument. When you say “then you stop eating carbs to get shredded” is just bollocks. No real bodybuilder stops eating carbs to get shredded. We (I say we because I am a contest bodybuilder) tend to reduce carb intake during a cut or show prep becaus…

You don't have to stop eating carbs, but not eating carbs has the possibility[1] to save off some gluconeogenesis by subbing fat for muscle while in ketosis, retaining more gains from the bulk. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/

Frankly that makes no sense in the context of a bodybuilder.

All of those studies listed in the review you posted are targeting either overweight people or "normal weight", both miles away from the body composition of a bodybuilder.

You can't take that and try to apply the same results to someone who's got their diet, exercise, sleep, daily steps, even salt intake dialed in like a bodybuilder does.

We all accept there will be muscle loss when you diet down. Heck, most natural bodybuilders probably have to drop 10kg before they are ready to go on stage.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#130
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. You can also go to a Testosterone replacement clinic and get an actual TRT prescription provided your T is actually low. If they are ethical, they will monitor to keep it within a healthy range so you don't go past an upper limit. Your results will suck ass if you have low T.

However pump up the T and your hairline will run away from you fast, then your hair will dropset to failure.

Isn’t there something you can take to prevent that from happening?
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