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Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

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Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#11

Post by subjectsigma »

I’ve no evidence to support this, but I strongly suspect these kind of dog-and-pony shows are a result of there simply not being enough black voices. White people want to be inclusive but they consistently fail to understand what black people actually want out of DEI… because they’re not consulting enough (or any) black people.

The best thing you can do is speak up and make sure your opinion is heard in a way that is simple and direct. Doing it on HN is fine but that won’t change your immediate situation, you need to talk to your leadership.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#13

Post by rel2thr »

fatnoah wrote: post #4

I think you raise some good points, and I think there are ways to handle DEI hiring well, and ways not to do it well. IMHO, when it's done well, DEI hiring isn't about filling quotas or giving anyone an edge, but it's about making sure that everyone has an equal chance. I've been part of DEI hiring at a couple companies, and my role has been much more about answering questions and making sure that candidates start th…

> it's about making sure that everyone has an equal chance

How does that look in practice? In most companies it seems that means that under-represented people get green lighted at the resume screen step at a much higher percentage than over-represented people. But the bar is the same at the interview stage.

But don't you see how that is a big dis-advantage for the median over-represented applicant?

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#14

Post by tjpnz »

Tangential to the current discussion but why do I always sense a reluctance to include matters relating to social class in these programs? When I bring it up during D&I discussions I'll usually get blank stares, and in one instance there were crude comments made about needing to beef up building security first.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#15

Post by fastball »

This has been a criticism of Affirmative Action / DEI initiatives since they were first proposed.

Unfortunately, I've never heard a good rebuttal to this argument. As long as such a system is in place, the potential beneficiaries of such programs cannot be sure if they are there because of merit or just to fill quotas; potentially causing harm to the exact people you're trying to help.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#16

Post by Mountain_Skies »

tjpnz wrote: post #14

Tangential to the current discussion but why do I always sense a reluctance to include matters relating to social class in these programs? When I bring it up during D&I discussions I'll usually get blank stares, and in one instance there were crude comments made about needing to beef up building security first.

DEI took off right after Occupy Wall Street. The whole purpose is to destroy the class discussion entirely and use DEI issues as a weapon against anyone who brings up class. That's why DEI feels so disingenuous, because at its core, that's exactly what it is.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#17

Post by giantg2 »

tjpnz wrote: post #14

Tangential to the current discussion but why do I always sense a reluctance to include matters relating to social class in these programs? When I bring it up during D&I discussions I'll usually get blank stares, and in one instance there were crude comments made about needing to beef up building security first.

Because people believe that social class is your own fault. That people can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps if they weren't lazy. Not that I agree with this.

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#18

Post by coffeebeqn »

tjpnz wrote: post #14

Tangential to the current discussion but why do I always sense a reluctance to include matters relating to social class in these programs? When I bring it up during D&I discussions I'll usually get blank stares, and in one instance there were crude comments made about needing to beef up building security first.

It’s easier to hang out with different colors of people from your social class and pretend like you’ve solved all the problems in diversity. People from lower classes also have icky views that don’t align with yours so no thanks!

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#19

Post by workOrNah »

> However, when I have to join a cheesy townhall once a month to discuss diversity hires, it makes me feel like I have no right to feel proud of any accomplishments I've made within the company.

DEI doesn't prescribe monthly townhalls about to discuss diversity lol Why are you blaming the failings of your company on DEI?

Re: Tell HN: DEI initiatives undermine the self esteem of PoC within a company

#20

Post by FartyMcFarter »

benmmurphy wrote: post #12

its probably a deliberate strategy in order to make you feel that you haven't earned your position but rather you are beholden to the people that gave it to you

I don't think that's right. Most people involved in DEI have good intentions, they're often just too short-sighted to see second order consequences of the way they do things.
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