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US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

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Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#21
There needs to be a big movement towards physical fitness in the US. Get people doing calisthenics at home (almost everyone can do incline pushups as a start), going to the gym, using indoor bikes, eating less, whatever it takes.

Improving the health system won't fix everything.

Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#22
post #5

>the system is bad Doctors aren't paid when you are healthy. How would you suggest fixing such a system? Because if you figure it out, there's a whole system of auto mechanics that could probably benefit from the solution.

I have heard similar arguments from pseudo-medical practitioners and I am going to assume you are not trolling.

There are huge logical gaps in your statement.

1/ Being alive is a constant fight against diseases, aging and myriad other illness. 2/ In any reasonable population, there would be a percentage of people who need more medical care than others. 3/ Children and old people are more vulnerable. 4/ Given these above, the doctors cater to people who need the medical care. 5/ The world is not static. You can eat something bad and get sick. The doctors and by extent, the entire healthcare system is not a sterile environment to put people in.

Why not propose an alternate system where doctors can be proactive in asking people to take care of themselves - maybe like asking them to take a vaccine?

Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#23
post #8

This isn't at all surprising, for multiple reasons. The entire insurance industry existing is a big one. That we are all overweight is another. I'm generally a very conservative person. But even I am for government funded healthcare. Who in the hell is against it? I've not met a single person completely against it, mostly just people against people abusing emergency rooms. Certain big media and politicians are agains…

> Who in the hell is against it?

Roughly half the country is against it! And ironically, it's often because they want "choice" in their medical care, despite the fact that health insurance is tied to your employment and you barely have any choices under your control anyway -- you go with the clinic or hospital that takes your plan, and you go with the doctor that's available.

Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#24
post #8

This isn't at all surprising, for multiple reasons. The entire insurance industry existing is a big one. That we are all overweight is another. I'm generally a very conservative person. But even I am for government funded healthcare. Who in the hell is against it? I've not met a single person completely against it, mostly just people against people abusing emergency rooms. Certain big media and politicians are agains…

It's a fallacy to claim US healthcare is not "government funded". Aside from that, Canadian wait times for surgery are substantially worse than the United States (even before they stopped necessary surgeries during lockdown). [1]

The amount of Canadians who visit the United States has increased dramatically over the last 10 years, many of which seek services which are simply not available at all in Canada -- such as specialist cancer treatment.

The NHS in the UK, commonly cited as the golden child of government-run healthcare, has the longest wait lists ever with tens of thousands waiting over a year. [2] NHS spending has increased over 6.5% yearly since 2010, with even more massive increases planned for 2024-25.

With the massive NHS spending, UK's nurses and doctors are treated like slave cattle. They earn less than 1/3rd of their US counterparts. This indicates administrative incompetence, skyrocketing middle management, waste and fraud.

[1] https://fee.org/articles/america-outperforms-canada-in-surge...

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61825071

Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#25
post #2

I think everyone is aware of this by now - the question is, do we understand what is preventing reform? It seems that we need to move beyond the revelation that 'the system is bad' and starting doing something about it. If so, what?

> If so, what?

Bring it into the political discourse. And vote.

Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#27

There needs to be a big movement towards physical fitness in the US. Get people doing calisthenics at home (almost everyone can do incline pushups as a start), going to the gym, using indoor bikes, eating less, whatever it takes. Improving the health system won't fix everything.

...or we could find a real solution

Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#28
post #8

This isn't at all surprising, for multiple reasons. The entire insurance industry existing is a big one. That we are all overweight is another. I'm generally a very conservative person. But even I am for government funded healthcare. Who in the hell is against it? I've not met a single person completely against it, mostly just people against people abusing emergency rooms. Certain big media and politicians are agains…

Private insurance doesn't have to be bad. Netherland has private insurance, and it works fine. Admittedly we've got probably the most expensive healthcare system in Europe, but it's still about half of what the US pays. But it does need to be tightly regulated, and more importantly, the healthcare system itself needs to be regulated. There needs to be a drive to lower costs while increasing quality. And of course the insurance company needs to take care of the costs. I see far too many stories about people having to fight their own insurance company.

The real fundamental problem I think is that the US healthcare system is primarily run for profit, and not for the health of the people. Both by insurance companies (who strongly resist paying), and by hospitals and other healthcare providers (who love to spring unexpected costs on you). That's the primary difference between the US and Dutch systems.

Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#29
post #8

This isn't at all surprising, for multiple reasons. The entire insurance industry existing is a big one. That we are all overweight is another. I'm generally a very conservative person. But even I am for government funded healthcare. Who in the hell is against it? I've not met a single person completely against it, mostly just people against people abusing emergency rooms. Certain big media and politicians are agains…

In David Graeber's book "Bullshit jobs", there's a quote from Barack Obama saying that strongest argument against overhauling the US health system is the millions of lost jobs from the insurance and adjacent industries. So there seems to be your answer, from the horse's mouth.

Re: US spends most on health care but has worst health outcomes

#30
post #18
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Insurance industry is a bug vampire squid sucking money out of the system, and ironicly stopping many from getting the health outcomes they need.

A small group chat I’m a part of has one person who works for an insurance company. Reading his messages about his work day is just depressing. “Oh, yeah, if someone has that cancer and they’re under 45 it’s an auto-reject from me. Just too unlikely for them to have it” was one message that’s stuck with me. You (or your company) pays thousands of dollars a year (or more) to an insurance company to cover you for when…

how.... how... can they reject anything that the hospital says?
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