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How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

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Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#81

Post by dtaht »

dtaht wrote: post #77
haroldp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love every word in this story. Remember when hacking was joyful ?

:blush: I write these days primarily about bufferbloat and network congestion control (and wifi), and have become more of a BOFH than then: https://blog.cerowrt.org I really do, still, 25 years later, remember sitting on that roof, in the rain, feeling like the world had shifted into another phase, had transcended somehow. The future was right there , spreading out in waves from our antenna, and from others. Not part…

heh. I just re-read my diary from those days for the first time in a dacade. http://www.rage.net/wireless/diary.html

I just realized that nobody knows who mike taht was (co-author of that doc - and I do not know where greg's writing began and mine started, he was always more howtoish than I). Perhaps that is best and I shouldnt be popping up on this thread.(I changed my name to dave when I first tried to retire in Nicaragua because I was tired of being a computer guy and wanted to just focus on music)

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#82

Post by dtaht »

pengaru wrote: post #45
throwaway892238 wrote: post #17

I used to build Linux router software that would fit on a floppy disk and run it in a 486DX2, for absolutely no reason except it was fun as hell. Made a nice web UI, packed in a ton of advanced features. Wanted to try and start a company to sell little open source routers, but then I found out cheap routers were quite hard to make money on, so I became a sysadmin instead and mostly browsed Slashdot for 10 years. My b…

Did something similar-ish, except using an old 386 motherboard packed to the gills with 30-pin SIMMs. Booted off 3.5" floppy into initramfs. Init was a busybox shell script (@/linuxrc IIRC) to setup ip masquerading as it was known then, then it'd deliberately panic by exiting init while the kernel kept running the network stack with no userspace. That little pile of PC debris eventually became a dialup POP for a loca…

I actually started with fidonet in the 80s. I am glad linux was so accessible and useful instead, in the 90s.

There were no girls on fidonet as best as I recall.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#83

Post by dtaht »

ghaff wrote: post #25
hk1337 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux router software that would fit on a floppy disk and run it in a 486DX2 I thought this was me that posted this and forgot I posted it. I did this exact thing with same equipment back in college. My reasoning was slightly different. I did do it just for fun but also I wanted to run multiple computers and servers and the university was pretty strict on the one computer per connection rule.

In the early days of consumer broadband, routers/switches were these exotic things and the cable companies absolutely would not support the configuration.

the cable companies had no service worth a damn at the time. DSL was going to win... it really was... and the fiber folk were planning to deliver any day now...

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#84

Post by dtaht »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #37

> The total cost of each end of the router, including antennas and cabling, is less than 1300 US dollars, which is a considerable cost savings over the dedicated bridge units (typically about 3100 US each) available from the same manufacturer. Adjusted for inflation, $1300 in 1998 dollars is equivalent to nearly $2400 in today's dollars. The $3100 manufacturer price would be equivalent to $5700 today. Really puts int…

I appreciate the loan from greg´s banker (his mom) all the more now. Without that... well, I still expect we would have had wifi, but perhaps only a for-pay-by-the-minute version from boingo. We (greg and I) later fought hard to get free wifi into the coffeeshops around the santa cruz and los-gatos area, trading free admin for free coffee as part of a group called thirdbreak. I am sad that our mailing list from that era has been lost to the copyright clowns...

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#85

Post by dtaht »

neurostimulant wrote: post #46

The linux router project referenced by the article is now redirecting to a porn site. Snapshot from 1998: https://web.archive.org/web/19981212030604/http://www.linuxr...

If it wasn't for porn, we wouldn´t have the internet we have today. It paid for a lot of T3s

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#86

Post by dtaht »

uniformlyrandom wrote: post #8

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

I have been working on openwrt since the mid 2000s. (the work we did on that wifi project turned into a job for me at the embedded linux maker, montavista - greg stayed on the server side and made a pile, I didn´t) These days I don´t really feel the need to upgrade my wifi all that much, as newer products have less range, and I still have just a picostation and ubnt AGW (running modern openwrt on less than a watt) that suit most of my needs. Firewallwise, I tend to reflash an old laptop or a nuc to run openwrt also, so I can run at a gbit plus. Most home routers still cannot forward a gbit in both direction at the same time, so it has become best to go with a good box to the isp, and wifi near your principal work/play locations.

For all home routers today - strongly recommend the SQM smart queue management) system that is actually a derivative of what we developed at that house, circa 2002, on everything - fq_codel and cake can help modern wired and wireless tech a lot.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#87

Post by dtaht »

zekica wrote: post #38
uniformlyrandom wrote: post #8

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

You should really look into Intel Pentium N6005 based mini PCs with up to 5 ethernet inferaces - they are very versatile and you can choose from different Router systems: OpenWRT, pfSense, opnSense and others. They consume less than 10 watts idle (most of the time) and about 25W max. Regular consumer routers consume 3-5W idle and about 15W max, so not much of a difference. You can even use a hypervisor and use VT-d t…

I kind of gave up on using the central box as a wifi router, and just put bridged APs closer to wherever they are needed. Simpler, and you can do more stuff on your firewall that way (like use it as a NAS)

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#88

Post by dtaht »

unqueued wrote: post #57
johnklos wrote: post #26

Reminds me of creating a wireless access point using an old 80486 laptop and a ORiNOCO Bronze wireless card, a pigtail and an antenna. It was for one of the first free public wireless networks in Tompkins Square Park in Manhattan, New York, in 2001. The bandwidth was provided by alt.coffee, a coffee and Internet cafe. It took some convincing to get the owners of alt.coffee to let me do this because they thought it wo…

John, at around that time you mentioned, you gifted me with my first shell account on one of your coffeshop servers, Reva. I just wanted to say THANK YOU. Up until then, I had read books about unix from the library, and had failed to install Mandrake on my laptop, but being able to access such a well configured NetBSD environment was really helpful and set me on a good path. I had never been truant from school before…

Linux was good for me too, I escaped SCO and then dodged the bullet of NT.

It was so nice to switch from being tied to wires, to many hours with table service at local coffee shops in santa cruz like the Perg, and 420 union, in Santa Cruz. Sadly, both are gone now....

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#89

Post by olau »

GuB-42 wrote: post #33
uniformlyrandom wrote: post #8

What if I'd like to build a linux router out of modern hardware? I would like to stop upgrading routers every two years (maybe just upgrade the wifi cards in it), and have full control over router's UI (command line is fine). Is this a stupid idea?

Not stupid, but you also have to understand the downsides. I once did that, essentially just a linux PC with extra network cards. It doubled as a NAS too. One issue is simply that when you are playing with it (updates and all that), you won't have a router and you will lose internet access for all your connected devices. You also have to consider power outages (UPS highly recommended) and electricity costs. It gives…

> A compromise is take an off-the-shelf router and flash an alternative firmware like OpenWrt.

Linksys (and others) even make some where this is supported out of the box.

Re: How to build a Linux-based wireless router out of spare parts (1998)

#90

Post by dtaht »

rendaw wrote: post #69
GuB-42 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not stupid, but you also have to understand the downsides. I once did that, essentially just a linux PC with extra network cards. It doubled as a NAS too. One issue is simply that when you are playing with it (updates and all that), you won't have a router and you will lose internet access for all your connected devices. You also have to consider power outages (UPS highly recommended) and electricity costs. It gives…

I've always been interested in this, but I was worried about the efficiency/performance loss. I don't really know how off the shelf routers work, but I'd assume most of the routing logic happens near the hardware... is this not the case? Or is linux able to move routing logic into the hardware so there's no significant performance difference? My own reasons are 1. It's an extra piece of hardware, when I already have…

please try openwrt.
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