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Programming prodigy passes away at 16

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Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#31

Post by dodedo »

fiaz wrote: post #25
andreadallera wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself. Sorry but no. Again, I don't want to belittle her accomplishments - it's certainly a feat for any girl or boy her age to be even able to put a very simple application together, but she came from a very wealthy Pakistani family. Saying that she made it to Redmond out of her own ambition and drive is spitting in the fac…

Would you care to elaborate on your last statement? EDIT: Actually never mind. This is only going to end up bad. You have your opinion and I have mine.

I believe he's pointing out, accurately, that wealthy families in Pakistan can be just as privileged as middle-class Americans. He's saying it's unfair to use this girl as an example of those actually living in under-privileged poverty conditions in Pakistan.

It's a fair objection, though rather emotionally contentious given the context.

Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#33

Post by ericb »

andreadallera wrote: post #24
fiaz wrote: post #20

Sure being an "MCP" in the HN circle is absolutely meaningless and doesn't warrant the title "programming prodigy", but that's not the point of this article. The point is that this was a girl who came from a third world country where women are not treated as well as men are in the West, and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself.

> and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself. Sorry but no. Again, I don't want to belittle her accomplishments - it's certainly a feat for any girl or boy her age to be even able to put a very simple application together, but she came from a very wealthy Pakistani family. Saying that she made it to Redmond out of her own ambition and drive is spitting in the fac…

I know privileged and smart 30 year olds for whom getting a real job or moving out of the house would be a major major accomplishment. This girl was 10.

Writing off her accomplishments due to privilege is unfair.

Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#34

Post by andreadallera »

reason wrote: post #30
andreadallera wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we get a bunch of morons on here telling us how the accomplishments aren't as good as they seem. Whoa, easy. I have expressed my opinion and I have backed it up well I think. No hate for the poor girl, that's just terrible that somebody 16 years old have to die, no matter his or her accomplishments. On the other hand, what accomplishments are we talking about here? Seriously, I'm really sorry for the poor girl, I r…

Bullshit. Utter bullshit. I don't get this angry when commenting here but the disgusting lack of empathy continually expressed on HN really, really gets to me. If you truly felt sorry for the girl, for her family, considered her family's pride for what she accomplished not only for herself but possibly for other kids in Pakistan, then you wouldn't feel the need to point out any of what you've stated. I read the artic…

Your reply makes me sad. I'll try to explain why:

Empathy should have nothing to do with your ability to evaluate facts. Empathy has an evil cousin, politically correctness. When politically correctness comes into play, you lose the game. You can't talk about anything with a straight perspective because, you know, somebody might get offended.

A 16 years old kid has died. That is a sad fact by itself. If she was the dumbest kid in Pakistan that wouldn't have made the fact less sad - only, you wouldn't have known it. If she was the poorest kid in Pakistan, same thing. Now, you know that a lot of 16 years old kids die in Pakistan? Most of them with family situations much worse than the one she was in? Do you feel empathy for them? I bet so. That's a good thing, a human thing to feel.

Now, as a thought experiment, let's say she wasn't a Pakistani little girl. Let's say she was a 16 years old boy coming from a rich US family. Even fat and greasy, to add to the image. Let's also add that this one didn't die - he's well off in his NY mansion eating Snickers all day. What would you have thought of the article? "16 years old kid from NY loves messing around with .NET". Wouldn't you have said: who cares? And rightly so?

Empathy drains perspective. Feeling empathy is the noblest thing in the world. At the same time, it doesn't mean that it should suspend your ability to evaluate situations. A big problem with our society and our communication channels is that they routinely employ this effect to steer public opinion where they want it to be. Don't be a sucker - be human, but use your brain.

Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#35

Post by bmahmood »

andreadallera wrote: post #18
hoodq19 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? A young girl dies, hacker or not. A writer who was touched by her writes about it. And the only thing worth writing is that you beat her to programming by 2 years. Bravo! Not that this applies to you, but at what age do people learn empathy and sensitivity?

No no no not at all - Sorry if it came out that way. On a personal level, I am deeply sorry for her death. Given time, she might have become a great programmer. On a more general level, when I see something like this on the news, I can't help but ask myself why exactly somebody has written an article about this particular person. In this case, it doesn't seem to me that she was the prodigy they're talking about. A sm…

My family is of Pakistani origin, and I have lived in Pakistan for several years. I think discounting her talent, simply because she's from a "very rich Pakistani family" is unfair.

Yes, elitist families have more opportunities than the rest, but counter-intuitively given the feudal elite culture of Pakistan, the rich are often devoid of ambition and simply join family businesses. Girls, especially, are raised with no other ambition than to get married.

I think for this girl to have such greater ambitions, despite the rampant chauvinistic expectations of her society, despite a country where everyone (including the rich) have 5-10 hrs of electricity/gas/water a day, despite living in a country in political upheaval, is pretty exemplary. And her talent, as such, is impressive in context.

Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#36

Post by andreadallera »

ericb wrote: post #33
andreadallera wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself. Sorry but no. Again, I don't want to belittle her accomplishments - it's certainly a feat for any girl or boy her age to be even able to put a very simple application together, but she came from a very wealthy Pakistani family. Saying that she made it to Redmond out of her own ambition and drive is spitting in the fac…

I know privileged and smart 30 year olds for whom getting a real job or moving out of the house would be a major major accomplishment. This girl was 10. Writing off her accomplishments due to privilege is unfair.

You know sons and daughters of multi-milionairs having problem finding a job and moving out of the house?

Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#37

Post by shawnz »

reason wrote: post #30
andreadallera wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we get a bunch of morons on here telling us how the accomplishments aren't as good as they seem. Whoa, easy. I have expressed my opinion and I have backed it up well I think. No hate for the poor girl, that's just terrible that somebody 16 years old have to die, no matter his or her accomplishments. On the other hand, what accomplishments are we talking about here? Seriously, I'm really sorry for the poor girl, I r…

Bullshit. Utter bullshit. I don't get this angry when commenting here but the disgusting lack of empathy continually expressed on HN really, really gets to me. If you truly felt sorry for the girl, for her family, considered her family's pride for what she accomplished not only for herself but possibly for other kids in Pakistan, then you wouldn't feel the need to point out any of what you've stated. I read the artic…

The nice thing about textual discussion is that you can have multiple opinions being analyzed at once. Just because not every single person is mourning in every message they write, doesn't mean nobody cares about the obvious tragedy. But there's no fun in analyzing the obvious. This girl is an absolute inspriation, and andreadallera helped remind me that it's not too late to hope for similar status for myself one day.

Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#38

Post by joemoon »

andreadallera wrote: post #34
reason wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Utter bullshit. I don't get this angry when commenting here but the disgusting lack of empathy continually expressed on HN really, really gets to me. If you truly felt sorry for the girl, for her family, considered her family's pride for what she accomplished not only for herself but possibly for other kids in Pakistan, then you wouldn't feel the need to point out any of what you've stated. I read the artic…

Your reply makes me sad. I'll try to explain why: Empathy should have nothing to do with your ability to evaluate facts. Empathy has an evil cousin, politically correctness . When politically correctness comes into play, you lose the game. You can't talk about anything with a straight perspective because, you know, somebody might get offended . A 16 years old kid has died. That is a sad fact by itself. If she was the…

> Empathy should have nothing to do with your ability to evaluate facts.

Frankly, your original post was extremely light on facts. The only relevant fact that you presented is that you think the MCP exam is easy. You wrote:

> the hype is widely unjustified

You really don't have enough information. You're looking at a single fact without context, and saying that it's nothing special. For some context, check out khalidmbajwa's comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3467046

Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#39

Post by shingen »

andreadallera wrote: post #12

I hate to write this, since the tragic happening but really, the hype is widely unjustified. I started programming when I was 8, I know a lot of people that started meddling around with computer around the same age, and I was born a decade before her which, in computer years, is like a century. Everything programming related was a hundred times more difficult to accomplish than it is now - I wrote assembly on a C64,…

What is wrong with you? What does her death have to do with you? That was one of the most disgusting, least human, comments I've ever seen written on HN.

Re: Programming prodigy passes away at 16

#40

Post by grannyg00se »

andreadallera wrote: post #12

I hate to write this, since the tragic happening but really, the hype is widely unjustified. I started programming when I was 8, I know a lot of people that started meddling around with computer around the same age, and I was born a decade before her which, in computer years, is like a century. Everything programming related was a hundred times more difficult to accomplish than it is now - I wrote assembly on a C64,…

It's supposed to be a positive inspirational story and it is supposed to attract readers. Perhaps there is some liberty being taken with the adjectives but as you are aware, there are many things to consider when it comes to putting a piece of news together. The hype is not necessarily created for the benefit of the subject.
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