If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough • Hacker News Board

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#171

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:25 AM UTC

jkepler wrote: post #152

horsawlarway wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a need and you already own it - knock yourself out. But comparing spending 40 bucks on craigslist or ebay for an old pentium/core 2 duo, vs getting an rpi... You're probably better off with the Pi (assuming you can source it, which is not a given atm). I don't even buy most of mine used, I just get hand-me-downs from friends/family because they want to get rid of the machine and ask me to wipe the drive i…

Helpful thought process, as I've defaulted for a while to older machines I have around, but now I question how much power they're drawing. I've never really considered power more than how long do my laptop batteries last. Do you have any pointers what sort of equipment to use to measure the power draw? Are you simply measuring it from a UPS?

[deleted]

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#172

Post by deelowe » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:32 AM UTC

contravariant wrote: post #142

harel wrote: post #127

You're only using 61 MB of your 512 MB RAM. Megabyte. I love it. Megabyte. I distinctly remember the happiness of attaching a 512KB RAM expansion card to my Amiga, bringing total RAM to 1MB. You have 512 of those!

I still think it's wild how much data can fit on a microSD nowadays. People would think you were crazy if you told them just a few decades ago.

MicroSDs and even thumb drives are INSANE. I remember how difficult it used to be to move large amounts of data reliably. Superdisks, Zip drives, CD-R/RW, and on and on. Portable storage solutions were an absolute nightmare for ages.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#173

Post by alwayslikethis » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:38 AM UTC

harel wrote: post #168

ezconnect wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We now have 1TB microSD cards.

I still finding it hard to trust 1TB worth of important data stored in that medium. I'm half joking but still, only half joking. The other half is dead serious.

You're right. SD lacks things like overprovisioning and wear leveling that would reduce failure rates. It's also rather slow to read/write from. On another note, it's incredibly easy to lose them.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#174

Post by jack_pp » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:41 AM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #6

The problem with arguments like these is to me two-fold: 1. Physical space. Most of the older tech takes too much space. I don't live in a mansion and I have no dedicated rooms just for big bulky computers. 2. Power consumption, heat, noise. I would love to be less consumerist and use stuff from 15 years ago and stop feeding greedy corporations but... the old stuff consumes 90 to 200 watts, heats up easily and notice…

You don't need old as in 20 year old. just cheap / second hand fanless computers like 2nd or 3rd gen NUCs, raspberry Pi's etc

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#175

Post by NovaPenguin » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:42 AM UTC

kbutler wrote: post #161

jkepler wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helpful thought process, as I've defaulted for a while to older machines I have around, but now I question how much power they're drawing. I've never really considered power more than how long do my laptop batteries last. Do you have any pointers what sort of equipment to use to measure the power draw? Are you simply measuring it from a UPS?

You can use a device like the kill-a-watt to measure actual consumption: https://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4460-Electricity-Mo...

These are always handy to have around. The first day with one is like the first day with a label maker. You test everything!

Some figures from around my house.

Lenovo Tkinkpad T400 - 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo Laptop idles at about 10 Watts and peaks at just over 30 watts.

Lenovo Thinkpad T420 - 2nd Gen i5 is about the same.

Lenovo Mini 10 - 1.66Ghz Atom doesn't seem to know how to idle its power regardless of OS. Runs at a constant 10.5 Watts - 15 watts if using a Hard Drive installed instead of SSD.

Core 2 Duo Mac Mini - 8 watts idle - 24 watts peak.

Sony Bluray player - 0.5 Watts idle. 5 Watts during Bluray. 3 Watts during DVD.

Desktop PC - 2nd Gen i7 + Geforce 1650. Idle 61 Watts - Peak in game 95-101 Watts.

Sony AM/FM Radio - 0.5 Watts. That one was actually really neat to know just how lower power it takes to run.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#176

Post by userbinator » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:43 AM UTC

abricot wrote: post #4

If you are happy not surfing most of the Web, any computer is good enough. It's usually browsers and web pages that brings these older PCs down.

Or apps that have no business being webapps, but somehow are.

When a chat and video/audio call client take 4GB all by itself...

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#177

Post by jack_pp » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:46 AM UTC

horsawlarway wrote: post #116

primis wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decade ago was 2013, the pentium 4 is at least 13 years old now, but entered production 23 years ago. There's still a lot of utility to be had from a 10 year old machine. My daily driver laptop os a lenovo t420 which came out in 2011. Sure it can't play games but it'll do fine with youtube, programming, etc. My server box is also a 2012 era machine, it's a 3770k build. It's perfectly fine for what I use it for. Yea…

If you have a need and you already own it - knock yourself out. But comparing spending 40 bucks on craigslist or ebay for an old pentium/core 2 duo, vs getting an rpi... You're probably better off with the Pi (assuming you can source it, which is not a given atm). I don't even buy most of mine used, I just get hand-me-downs from friends/family because they want to get rid of the machine and ask me to wipe the drive i…

I'm curious how you manage to use 650kw+ per month. I don't go over 300 even in the summer with the AC on.

Also why would you just keep running extra machines all the time? I understand a personal machine and a server but more than that.. for what?

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#178

Post by userbinator » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:51 AM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #6

The problem with arguments like these is to me two-fold: 1. Physical space. Most of the older tech takes too much space. I don't live in a mansion and I have no dedicated rooms just for big bulky computers. 2. Power consumption, heat, noise. I would love to be less consumerist and use stuff from 15 years ago and stop feeding greedy corporations but... the old stuff consumes 90 to 200 watts, heats up easily and notice…

The old stuff is far more open and documented, which is very important from a freedom perspective. Repairability is really low for anything even slightly recent.

I'm not sure which Celeron J you're referring to, but I know some models were affected by the infamous LPC clock bug --- which might explain why there seems to be a surplus of machines with those CPUs available for amazingly low prices.

I like computers the same way I like my cars, loud and hot ;-)

Eco-virtue-signaling, the other modern plague...

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#179

Post by winter_blue » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 2:53 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #176

abricot wrote: post #4

If you are happy not surfing most of the Web, any computer is good enough. It's usually browsers and web pages that brings these older PCs down.

Or apps that have no business being webapps, but somehow are. When a chat and video/audio call client take 4GB all by itself...

It's bloat caused by stuff like Electron, and people choosing to write desktop apps in HTML + JavaScript/TypeScript + some framework.

If people even used a framework like Qt (a really mature and well-maintained desktop framework the favored framework of KDE Plasma, etc.), their memory usage would be so much lower. (I'm not counting the memory used by Qt's shared .so / dynamic library files.)

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#180

Post by sgtnoodle » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 3:04 AM UTC

This week I've been "rejuvenating" my 11 year old i7 2600k desktop. I built a zen 3 based computer a couple years ago, purely as a luxury, after spending 5 days in the hospital ICU. The i7 was chugging along just fine doing whatever I needed it to do, and it seemed a waste to just forget about it.

I fully disassembled it and cleaned out the dust. I spent an evening lapping the CPU and heat sink down to 2000 grit. I put it in a new case, as the old one's front panel fell off. I installed my old GTX 970 GPU, which seems like a perfect pairing.

Maybe I'll gift it to a young nephew, or maybe I'll set it to easily boot up into a mentally stimulating game for my 4 year old daughter. Her knowledge of computer games right now is beamng.drive and tux racer!