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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#681

Post by DenisM »

phil21 wrote: post #223
junofan wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who think like that want RTO, which is part of what GP is saying. The disposable resource people champion remote work.

Yep. This. I can't believe HN zeitgeist cannot understand this. Why would I hire a US employee for twice the cost when I can hire someone 95% as good remotely in a low cost area of the world and actually get an employee that sticks around for a decade vs. a year? It's honestly not even really a decision at this point if you have the management infrastructure in place.

Why would an offshore employee stick around any longer than a US one? They too would move as soon as they find a better offer.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#682

Post by calsy »

mettamage wrote: post #671
calsy wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bizarro world is this?

I'd prefer more thought and more empathy (note: not sympathy) in your statement. I'm presenting a different way to look at things. From the HN guidelines [1]: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker o…

Why is my statement any different to what a person on the street would say when a random stranger tries to interact with them? People on the street always WANT something from you. It is rarely ever for the benefit of the recipient.

Thats why 99% of people have their guard up and are not interested in random chit chat let alone making friends. Reading Dale Carnegie wont change that.

These suggestions are being thrown around as preferred alternatives to meeting people at work.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#683

Post by shepherdjerred »

watwut wrote: post #634
65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

> Day in, day out. All alone. I don't have a girlfriend, friends, or a life in this city. You expect to find a girlfriend on the job? I don't mean it as a snark. But in office means that work and communiting takes even more of your life. Unless she comes from the job, which is unlikely in male dominated profession, being with team won't get you girlfriend.

> You expect to find a girlfriend on the job?

The parent didn't say this. He probably meant it as in "if I had a girlfriend, not having friends wouldn't be as rough".

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#684

Post by bawolff »

treis wrote: post #123
bawolff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people were in the office, were you able to tell the difference between someone staring blankly at a screen vs actually doing work for six hours?

I'd think so, but either way staring blankly at a screen for six hours a day is way worse than writing code. A much smaller temptation than all the entertainment options in your house and abound.

I think for most people, procrastination isn't actually about doing the more fun option.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#685

Post by [deleted] »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#686

Post by wlonkly »

ipaddr wrote: post #536
kccqzy wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing between friends at work and the employer itself. Layoffs are irrelevant: your friends (including those at work) will support you if you are laid off, unlike your employer. Also, once you make a friend at work you can meet outside the workplace, or communicate with non-work communication channels.

But you won't because the reason why you spent time together was someone paid you to. How many people are you still hanging out with the company you worked 10 or 5 years ago? Very few if any..

For n=1: Most of my friends, and definitely my closest friends. That said I made more close, long-term friends as hire #11 at a startup than I did as hire #111 at a midsize tech company.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#687

Post by listenallyall »

antisthenes wrote: post #592
listenallyall wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never made a connection that proved valuable later on. Sorry buddy but that's on you. You make valuable connections by being generous and helpful to others. Then at some point down the road when they need to hire someone, they remember, hey 'snozolli' was a great coworker, let me see if they're available.

That's on you only if the people you made friends with later advanced to positions of power that can make hiring decisions. I don't think I have to tell you how incredibly lucky that is. Otherwise, they probably just moved on to be another cog in the machine that has no say over hiring.

No, you're short-sighted. You don't have to be friends with any of these people. You can be generous and helpful to anyone, people above and below you (or even people you don't work with!), it has nothing to do with "being friends."

And if you are under 40 (probably under 60), yes, some of your coworkers will advance to positions of power. Nothing to do with luck, it's just numbers. But you can certainly increase your own opportunities by directing your helpfulness, generosity and competency towards as many people as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#688

Post by lamontcg »

PheonixPharts wrote: post #190
n8cpdx wrote: post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

> everyone being remote is really bad for younger/newer employees who completely miss out on networking, mentorship, company culture, etc. I've personally found mentorship is much easier remote since you can more easily dedicate your entire focus on a person rather than just catching up real quick before meetings. I had a team member who was really struggling with isolation. Mentioned it to me briefly in chat and I h…

Yeah I haven't had an issue mentoring remotely, but it requires people to be aggressive about hopping on zoom and asking questions.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#689

Post by listenallyall »

ilaksh wrote: post #621
listenallyall wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord, rich shared 3d spaces, GitHub Issues, wikis... Lol. Some people (most, I'd say) prefer going to lunch or to Starbucks with other people, leaving all the technology behind briefly, and simply talking. I think it's also more effective in getting a point across than any virtual medium.

More effective how? You may have a higher bandwidth interface but the difference between a video chat audio call and in-person is not as big as people think it is. Also eye contact is coming soon to VR devices. It's nice to be able to meet in person sometimes and going out is more fun. But it absolutely is not important for effective communication. Unless they literally have poor writing skills and/or poor reading co…

> poor reading comprehension

Email and text (and surely Slack as well) are notorious for miscommunication as a result of missing emotion, lack of visual cues, not recognizing sarcasm/joking, etc. Dozens of studies and millions of personal experiences confirm this.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#690

Post by dnissley »

inoop wrote: post #457
65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

If you're in NYC and want to grab lunch let me know

I'll chime in here for Seattle -- same offer
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