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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#561

Post by Ensorceled »

klyrs wrote: post #65
treis wrote: post #23

I think a lot of people are abusing WFH. Some make it obvious like doing meal prep during refinement but others are just kind of ghosts during the day. Even as a fellow team member reviewing code it's hard to tell how much my coworkers are working. Assume my EM has less of an idea than I do and anyone above them is totally in the dark.

I'm working within minutes of waking up, and shower during my lunch break -- taking about 20 minutes total, instead of the hour spent on an office lunch. I take a minute or ten to do chores like laundry, meal prep or dishes, usually no more than twice a day -- in the office, I take similar length breaks and often end up socializing with others. I often find overlooked solutions during my breaks, which are spaced out…

"A lot of people are abusing WFH" doesn't mean "all" so ask yourself why you are assuming this internet stranger has unfairly lumped you, personally and specifically, into the "abusing" group and taking offense?

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#562

Post by Redsquare »

cloudwalking wrote: post #4

People need social connections with their peers to work together successfully. It's much easier to build these connections in the office than virtually. Seeing each other a couple times per quarter for an extended period could also work, but it's easier--if you already have an office space--to bring people together in the office once or twice a week.

Love these soundbites with zero evidemce. Absolutely not true, plenty of us enjoying remote, we can socialise in a bar/restaurant. No need for an office.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#563

Post by Moru »

RichEO wrote: post #520
herghost wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I'm happily married, children, dog, several distinct groups of friends, great job at a great company, lovely house in a nice village, etc, etc, etc. I worked from home for about 4 years as a freelancer and found it incredibly isolating (but lucrative, so endured it) but finally had enough and get a permanent job back in an office. This was 5 weeks before what would be the first of sever…

I don’t know where you live, but have you considered finding a “third place” to work from or frequent at lunch or after work? I’ve found that working from a local cafe, in my little suburban “village” centre has been really fantastic for this. I work, I bump into people I know, I meet new people and get to know my neighbours. It’s great.

Was listening to radio the other day. Was some writer that used to sit at her local café to work but during covid she stopped because it got too crowded and now she can't go back again.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#564

Post by porker »

Gigachad wrote: post #417
nostromo wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, friends are part of it -- family is the other part of it. If you don't have either -- filling that void by spending all day in an office sounds even more depressing. I'd focus more on making friends and finding a committed relationship. There are lots of solutions here outside of working in-person: Find roommates. Start playing sports. Date more. Find an in-person hobby. Volunteer.

What I know is that those first few years of my career in office were the best years of my life. I’ve been scrambling around trying everything to fill the gap left by remote work, I go to meetups, I have family and friends, none of it is as significant as working together with people for the majority of your day. I’m going back to the office and I won’t take another job that has most people remote.

> What I know is that those first few years of my career in office

In that particular office.

Ive had spells of time like that. Mine were at universities working together in labs.

Ive worked software jobs in companies and startups where the developers sat in the same room all day and didn't speak. Completely unsociable. I found that much more soul destroying than remote working.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#565

Post by eddsh1994 »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

I understand this completely, having worked remotely since February 2019. Can't wait to meet people more often.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#566

Post by deely3 »

Kharvok wrote: post #140

Some of my teams were fully remote about eight weeks in 2020, while others have been remote the entire time. I don't believe in full RTO, just hybrid. 1. The last few years have demonstrated that projects with teams that are primarily remote require a higher degree of project overhead staffing. I think this is most evident with very small teams. For example, it's fairly easy for a small internal tool team to coordina…

1. > All communication has to be structured fully remotely. That structure requires management.

As opposed to work from office where management does not required because... Managers already present in the office?

2. Erm. From my exp 20% of people have to learn to how to maintain a professional work environment at home. Thats just a skill, nothing more.

3. Agree.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#567

Post by blep_ »

908B64B197 wrote: post #147
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #126

Let's talk about resources and overhead. If you WFH, then you're paying rent, utilities, you have a kitchen, you may well be BYOD, your ISP is a consumer-grade connection, you've got renter's or homeowner's insurance covering your stuff. That's all miles different from working in an office. They've got cleaning staff and a maintenance team. They've got an enterprise-class high-speed redundant Internet connection (and…

> That's all miles different from working in an office. They've got cleaning staff and a maintenance team. They've got an enterprise-class high-speed redundant Internet connection (and the on-prem servers are on your multi-GB core network.) There's a break room and free sodas in the fridge. The engineers don't need to clean their own toilets. By saving on office costs you can just offer those benefits to your remote…

(or just give them the money you saved and let them decide how to allocate it)

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#568

Post by ipaddr »

roncesvalles wrote: post #380
65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

Same and same. Also, I hate how these days it's somehow shameful to even think about making friends at the workplace, that somehow work friends are work friends and can never be your "real friends". Looking at my parents' generation, most of their current friendships are people they met at work. In fact my parents met each other at work. We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild tha…

You go to school to learn so you can earn not make friends. You are paying tens of thousands a year to be taught by the best and you think it's for socializing. Think of all the people who cannot afford school is there no way for them to make friends.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#569

Post by [deleted] »

listenallyall wrote: post #370
Clubber wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You make valuable connections by being generous and helpful to others. In my experience all my valuable connections have come from me working really hard on the same team as them and being goals oriented and meeting those goals; not wasting time dilly dallying in the hallways. Making meaningful connections in the hallway sounds like a middle manager thing.

Working really hard and meeting goals == helpful and generous. I'm sure at some point you had a roadblock on a piece of code and a co-worker helped you overcome it, or vice versa. Or you covered for someone that one day when his kid was sick so the team didn't fall behind it's timeline. Being sociable and taking an interest in other people via hallway convos is also a good way to build connections and/or friendships,…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#570

Post by PureParadigm »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

Your feelings are shared by many others our age. Friends at work are important, especially if you're living alone. I live alone in a city with friends within reach, but only having friends outside of work is not enough social interaction for me.

Consider how much social time there is in high school and college. There was barely a moment to be alone. Classes are full of discussion, meals are eaten together, and shooting the shit with siblings or roommates fills in all the other time. If you forego social interaction during work hours, I don't see how the math adds up to get back to the baseline from high school and college.

It sounds like you have an office to go to even though your team doesn't come in often. This is the case for me too, but luckily I'm at a big enough company where there are people my age on other teams. At first, barely anyone came in, but someone has to break the deadlock so I kept coming in every day regardless. Fast forward a year and there is a group of 20-somethings that come in every day. I've formed some of the best friendships of my life here. I recommend going into the office every day even if it's going to be empty. It's a good routine anyway to get out of the house.

While I don't have any personally, I'd also recommend housemates. A lot of my friends from work have housemates and I feel like it's an easy way to build a large friend group since you can share each other's friends. It especially seems to help those who are new to the city and don't have a friend group yet. Your housemates can also easily become your friends!

I really sympathize with your situation. You're simply asking for what used to be normal to return. Don't lose hope - there are so many of us like you and we just need to find each other.

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