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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#401

Post by jemmyw »

DangerousPie wrote: post #367
ornornor wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you only interact during scheduled meetings with a defind purpose, you never engage in work-related small talk Whats stopping people from scheduling “shoot the shit” of coffee calls though? That’s what I’ve seen many do since the wfh mandate and it works in exactly the same way you describe: people vent, talk about what happened during meetings, etc.

It feels very artificial and takes a lot more planning. I still do this sometimes but it's not the same.

Why does it require a lot of planning? I do this, usually it's "bored, coffee break?" "Yep" or I ask a question on slack and the other party says "call?"

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#402

Post by ljf »

atsuzaki wrote: post #175
jpeterson wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes." I've seen this idea repeated many times, but in over 20 years in the tech industry, I've never once seen a meaningful collaboration spring up in a kitchenette or hallway. It's invariably "how was your weekend?" fare. Don't get me wrong, there's value in connecting that way, but it's never the sort of thing that dire…

I scored most (if not all) of my career-defining opportunities from hallway convos after a meeting, or chatting while waiting for coffee to brew, so YMMV.

How much of your working life was in person vs remote?

I agree most of my 'big breaks' were face to face, that was due to the point I was in my career at that time. I've still had some great progression during remote working times - sometimes you just need to make these things happen - contacting someone just for a chat if that is what you need, turning up to online meetings early to spend a little time chatting before the proper meeting, or asking specific people if they have time to stay on.

I really think half the problem is that we aren't yet used to the new rules of engagement, and are still figuring out what feels right. But opportunity is still there.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#403

Post by bilvar »

ornornor wrote: post #306
kelnos wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should require that everyone be in an office, so that people like you can get their career-defining opportunities? Maybe many of us would be fine making that trade-off: fewer opportunities for career-defining opportunities in exchange for the elimination of a commute, more-comfortable working arrangements, and a much more flexible work schedule. Not everything in life is about career advancement.

> Not everything in life is about career advancement. Well said :)

Yes, and when people going to the office get more opportunities, more advancement and higher compensation, he/she will be complaining for making "less money for the same work". Or they will start complaining about how unfair is that those opportunities only arise in the office and demand that there will be "procedures" for them to be available remotely.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#404

Post by kelnos »

roncesvalles wrote: post #380
65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

Same and same. Also, I hate how these days it's somehow shameful to even think about making friends at the workplace, that somehow work friends are work friends and can never be your "real friends". Looking at my parents' generation, most of their current friendships are people they met at work. In fact my parents met each other at work. We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild tha…

I've made plenty of real, meaningful, long-term friendships at work. But I also have solid friend groups of people I've met outside work. I value all of them, but I'm not going to give up the opportunity to have more flexible working arrangements because some people seem to think they can only make friends at work.

> We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to work and make friends with other people at work?

"Want" and "need" aren't the same thing. We made friends at school because we had no choice. We were required to go to school, so of course the result is that we'd end up making friends there. But even as children, we had other opportunities to make friends: recreational sports leagues, boy/girl scouts, church groups (if that was your family's thing), volunteering, etc. Sure, I'm not saying those sorts of things could replace socialization at school.

But in the adult world, we've already been socialized, and we should be able to meet people outside of required, structured activities. It's a shame that some people perhaps didn't learn that as well as others, but I don't think that's a problem best solved by requiring unrelated people to come to an office, when remote work offers so much more flexibility and many more possibilities.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#405

Post by wtp1saac »

65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

Relating to this a lot. I've barely had much in person social interaction since 2020, where college for me ended up remote for the pandemic. Was a relief when classes went back in person a year later, but too little too late for me to build up any meaningful social interactions there, and now I'm in a remote job to the opposite end of the country (and other parts of the world with even more disparate timezones), so I'm pretty much in a similar boat of no meaningful in person interaction.

I like technology as an auxiliary means of communicating with people, but having pretty much 95-100% of my interactions occur over texting and calling (people don't even usually bother to turn on their cameras) has been a personal hell, and honestly has soured my opinion of the entire internet. Beyond just work, what few personal relationships I do have at this point are usually also remote, so actually spending real life time with people is this far distant tertiary form of interacting, when it's the natural bloody thing we're evolved to do as a species.

Now you have companies like Meta investing in the metaverse "future" where we sit in VR headsets, trade crypto for fake digital goods, have romantic relationships with virtual avatars, and sit in virtual offices so our twenty-poly character models can discuss around a fake whiteboard. I just want to be around people again.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#406

Post by welshwelsh »

voisin wrote: post #336

A lot of the comments here are binary. Why not advocate for hybrid, 3 days in, 2 days out, or vice versa, giving junior people opportunities for exposure and mentorship and giving everyone time to build culture together, but allowing people time away for deeper work? And then why not invest in your office space so people aren’t treated like animals at a trough and be in actually good locations with walkable amenities…

Nobody is actually in the office 5 days a week anymore, right? I thought RTO meant 1-3 days a week in the office.

Anyway, I don't think we need the term "hybrid." If employees are required to live within commuting distance of an office, then that is an "in-office" job. Being able to work remote at least some of the time is a given for any position.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#407

Post by matrisking »

krippe wrote: post #383
65 wrote: post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

So I'm supposed to deal with the hassle of commuting, losing hours of my day, because YOU are starved for human connections? Get out of here...

Yeesh. Who said you're supposed to do anything?

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#408

Post by arcturus17 »

dymk wrote: post #245
arcturus17 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself 100% a remote guy, but c'mon. Isn't it reasonable for people in an org to be in the same physical space a few times a year.

No, why do you think it’s reasonable that be a requirement to be productive?

Because while I think the benefits of remote work clearly outweigh the cons, I also concede that face-to-face human interaction provides a host of benefits that cannot be replicated virtually, and meeting my clients and partners in person from time to time is nice (if I worked as an employee, I'd think the same of my teammates and bosses)

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#409

Post by dag11 »

cal85 wrote: post #388
Volundr wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you and doubt nothing about your plight, but frankly that feels like a you problem. I can sympathize while also rejecting the idea that I should have to come into the office so your not lonely. Have you considered a co-working space? It seems like that could get you what your looking for. Beyond that I'd look to get creative around finding ways to get social outside work. A martial arts or social dance class f…

> frankly that feels like a you problem It's also a me problem, so there's at least two of us.

Me three. I happen to have a strong friend group, but being single and living alone, the first few months of the pandemic were miserable from a solitary confinement standpoint. Even in recent years if I have to WFH for any reason, it's just the worst thing. Plus I'm just not productive when I'm working home alone.

I'm extremely thankful that my company is mostly comprised of people who prefer and thrive working in our one office. And no, I'm not using my coworkers as my friend group. Despite loving some of my work friends, my strongest friends are all outside the office. But the office environment and the people in it give me life.

When it comes time to look for a next job (if ever), the biggest requirement by far will be a working environment that's mostly, if not entirely, in office.

I'm 27 for reference, but I've felt this way ever since the start of my career.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#410

Post by kelnos »

Gigachad wrote: post #394
krippe wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm supposed to deal with the hassle of commuting, losing hours of my day, because YOU are starved for human connections? Get out of here...

Gen Z and A are going to have serious problems. Work and School are biggest sources of friends. The two things they missed out on. I doubt many friends were made in the chat box of an online class.

School goes on until you're 18 or so (and even later if you go to university). Two-ish years of online schooling certainly hurt a bit, but is a small percentage of available childhood socialization time.
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