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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I echo others here - I've not seen a meaningful, revenue-driving conversation happen in these in a decade of work. Do you have specific examples of valuable collaboration in one of these environments? I can think of lots, and am surprised anyone would say otherwise - I guess you must be using a really high bar for "meaningful". An example might be, "You know, I didn't want to say anything in the meeting, but doesn'…

An example might be, "You know, I didn't want to say anything in the meeting, but doesn't Greg's data lake proposal sound exactly like the project that failed two years ago?" A lot of that seems to happen over Slack already - whether you're in the meeting or at home.

I am a lot more open in honest in person than I am on Slack, because I know everything I say on Slack is logged and can bite me in the ass years down the line.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example might be, "You know, I didn't want to say anything in the meeting, but doesn't Greg's data lake proposal sound exactly like the project that failed two years ago?" A lot of that seems to happen over Slack already - whether you're in the meeting or at home.

How would you know? The very nature of that communication is that it’s private. Maybe nobody talks to you in person, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

How would you know? The very nature of that communication is that it’s private.

How would I know that these conversations happen over Slack? Because I've participated in them, either in DM's or small private channels. And this was commonplace well before the pandemic and WFH started.

Maybe nobody talks to you in person, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

It's hard to have a private in-person conversation outside of a meeting room in a typical open-office setup -- breakroom conversations tend to get heard by people that you don't want to hear them.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#373
post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

"There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes." I've seen this idea repeated many times, but in over 20 years in the tech industry, I've never once seen a meaningful collaboration spring up in a kitchenette or hallway. It's invariably "how was your weekend?" fare. Don't get me wrong, there's value in connecting that way, but it's never the sort of thing that dire…

> I've seen this idea repeated many times, but in over 20 years in the tech industry

Exactly, and how many of those conversations are wasted on nothing? Sure, there's a social element to it, so how about we highlight that aspect and not some "lightbulb" moment that derives from small talk.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#374

> Employers, why do you want us back in the office? Because we're all paranoid that the other companies will somehow gain some sort of economic/productivity advantage from bringing their guys back into the office and leverage this to push us out of the market. Even though we keep seeing research that this absolutely isn't the case, the only way to be sure is to preemptively bring our guys back into the office too. Ya…

I assume it's mostly ego driven, imagining the side comments from their peers at the industry conference "Joe couldn't even get his people back into the office"

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems wild to me. It seems like the company and managers are doing something wrong if all your advancement is coming from random unofficial chats.

Wow where do you work that management has their shit together that well?

Norwich Union (Aviva) the insurance company have a system called The Wall iirc (been over decade).

Its a free for all for asking questions, sending messages, making unofficial FYI notes, its an attempt to document those conversations that would have otherwise taken place between individuals. Everyone from the top down has read/write access. Main objective to document those conversations, so nothing gets missed, like people being otherwise engaged in meetings/phone calls. Self Censorship takes place because everyone can view it, reduces staff harassment problems.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#376
post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

I hear you and doubt nothing about your plight, but frankly that feels like a you problem. I can sympathize while also rejecting the idea that I should have to come into the office so your not lonely.

Have you considered a co-working space? It seems like that could get you what your looking for. Beyond that I'd look to get creative around finding ways to get social outside work. A martial arts or social dance class for example. Frankly I think it's much healthier if your coworkers aren't the core of your social life.

FWIW I too had this problem at the start of the pandemic. My solution was to build a gym and workout with my friends 3x a week. Obviously this isn't a solution for your plight in a new city.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#377
post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

My story is very similar to yours. Used to be ok with remote work but then I had a break up last year and need to get back to the office. Unfortunately all the tech jobs are in other cities of Australia so I can only get remote jobs.

Made the decision this month to pack up everything and move to Melbourne so I can work in the office among other things.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about remote work prevents "being generous and helpful to others"? Or, put differently, what about being in an office makes it easier to be generous and helpful? And before you reply: how sure are you that whatever you come up with applies to everyone and not just to you and people like you? Keep in mind that a lot of people in tech (myself included) are literally digital natives who learned to socialize on the…

Where did I say you can't be generous or helpful remotely? My comment applies to any type of work (until non-human AI replaces all of us).

Ah. I think you and I must have interpreted OP's statement very differently. I interpreted it to mean that being physically present in an office never directly contributed to making a connection, not that they literally never had anyone help them out later on.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#379
Big organisations are lead by people that hang out with other people in big corporations. Some of these other corporations are friends with people in big organisations that own office properties or do office cleaning or whatever. These corporate leaders have common interests in office workers being at the office and justifying paying friends of friends and keeping them happy.

If you're a bigwig and cut down on office spending other bigwigs will be less likely to help you out when you need a new position, among other things.

To explain the 'hallway talk is great' myth: it's from the masters of process, owners of product, and other similar people, that work relatively closely to the people actually building and maintaining the systems that make dah mahney. These people learn a lot and get a lot of things explained that they otherwise wouldn't and that makes them feel less nervous about not having any actual control at all over the output and functioning of the 'team'. They could of course ask over asyncronous chats or email but they don't know what to ask and they're scared they'll irritate someone, so they prefer sucking it out of smalltalk by the coffee machine.

And then there's the 'but how will I ever manage to take a walk or bike if my boss doesn't tell me to'. If this is you, get help. You have some executive dysfunction that will eventually be unhealthy somehow, probably when you're unemployed or have a lot of spare time for some other reason. Fix it before you realise you've spent amazing free time that you yourself got to own on doing none of the things you know makes you feel good and strong. How to do it varies, it could be therapy, it could be to move to a less polluted place, could be something else.

Remote is here to stay. Fire your boss if they insist on you spending more than two days a month at some office for no good reason.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#380
post #342

I'm in my 20s. I live alone in a city where I don't know anyone. Remote work destroyed my mental health. All I wanted was to be able to go into an office and talk to a real life person. I would go weeks at a time not talking to a single person in real life. I don't think people understand the plight of the young office worker until they've experienced the torture of solitary confinement. Day in, day out. All alone. I…

Same and same. Also, I hate how these days it's somehow shameful to even think about making friends at the workplace, that somehow work friends are work friends and can never be your "real friends". Looking at my parents' generation, most of their current friendships are people they met at work. In fact my parents met each other at work.

We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to work and make friends with other people at work?

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