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Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

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Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#261

Post by prpl »

thewebcount wrote: post #116
n8cpdx wrote: post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

> There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. I’ve literally never seen this. I’ve seen people sit around and gossip about coworkers or talk about the latest TV shows or movies or sports, though. (And nothing wrong with that. We can’t think about work for 8 hours straight.) > That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable a…

I don’t think the “bad for younger/junior people” thing is speculation. My team had an intern who was toiling away at something for two+ weeks that I resolved for him in 10 minutes the one day I went to the office for that month. It was slightly mentioned in stand ups and even meetings, but remote work doesn’t mean less meetings and frankly people (myself included) have even more divided attention during remote meetings because it’s easier to multitask and tune out things that aren’t immediately relevant to your work. That happened a bit before, but it happens much more often in the remote era.

I think remote is better for personal focus, but at a small cost to team focus.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#262

Post by gtvwill »

snozolli wrote: post #87
n8cpdx wrote: post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

Every element you mention as being part of an in-office experience has been completely absent from my career. Never made a connection that proved valuable later on. Never received any mentorship or even any guidance, I was always simply given a task and expected to complete it. Company culture doesn't even feel like a real thing outside of HR blurbs. Spontaneous collaboration was outweighed by interruptions and meddl…

Man I feel ya. I hear all these idealic work life experiences and I'm like...man my first job I did 18 hour days and got essentially bullied by the 2nd in command. Next job, spent the entire time w seniors throwing spanners, yelling abuse, threatening to lock me in toolboxes and leave them in the sun (mine workers hate uni students it seems). 3rd job, forced to work w asbestos w zero health gear. Called worksafe basically got laughed at. Walked out of that one.

My first decade of employment had zero mentoring and was basically just a gauntlet of abuse and unsafe work practices. Only time it got good was working w big blue, no abuse there. Idealic tbh. After that back into the slums of normie business. Got fired for upholding security standards lol.

Business/work isn't as kind to some of us as it is to others it would seem.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#263

Post by User23 »

n8cpdx wrote: post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

> There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes

That's an interesting way to say "office politics."

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#264

Post by ineptech »

gemstones wrote: post #158
n8cpdx wrote: post #67

There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. That’s the sort of thing that isn’t immediately obvious, but becomes more noticeable as time goes on. The first months of the pandemic people were able to coast on their existing connections, but it becomes harder years on, especially if half your team has _never_ met in person or come to company HQ. In the before tim…

> There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes. I echo others here - I've not seen a meaningful, revenue-driving conversation happen in these in a decade of work. Do you have specific examples of valuable collaboration in one of these environments? > Edit: full disclosure, I’m not an employer but I sympathize and spent a lot of time thinking about these things as…

> I echo others here - I've not seen a meaningful, revenue-driving conversation happen in these in a decade of work. Do you have specific examples of valuable collaboration in one of these environments?

I can think of lots, and am surprised anyone would say otherwise - I guess you must be using a really high bar for "meaningful". An example might be, "You know, I didn't want to say anything in the meeting, but doesn't Greg's data lake proposal sound exactly like the project that failed two years ago?"

Looking back though, I think the important thing is not physical proximity, it's conversation without an agenda. If you only interact during scheduled meetings with a defind purpose, you never engage in work-related small talk: grousing about frustrations, daydreaming about improvements, comparing notes, etc. I think these things are important (not to everyone, I get that some people despise small talk, but to some people). If you only communicate in formal meetings, you can end up with 6 people independently realizing Greg's data lake proposal is doomed to fail, but not speaking up because they each feel like everyone else is on board.

And it hadn't occurred to me before this moment, but the way to get this back without returning to an office seems obvious: pairing and mobbing. That's the only time since I started WFHing that I've had or seen others having these kind of un-directed conversations with coworkers: during downtime in a mob. I need to think about this a bit more...

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#266

Post by User23 »

atsuzaki wrote: post #175
jpeterson wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes." I've seen this idea repeated many times, but in over 20 years in the tech industry, I've never once seen a meaningful collaboration spring up in a kitchenette or hallway. It's invariably "how was your weekend?" fare. Don't get me wrong, there's value in connecting that way, but it's never the sort of thing that dire…

I scored most (if not all) of my career-defining opportunities from hallway convos after a meeting, or chatting while waiting for coffee to brew, so YMMV.

That's called office politics.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#268

Post by paulgb »

ilaksh wrote: post #128
paulgb wrote: post #88

I suspect HN skews senior/established in our careers, but it’s interesting comparing the sentiment of people on here (almost universally pro-remote) with candidates I’ve talked to when we’ve listed roles. A lot of candidates, especially more junior ones, explicitly want an in-person office culture.

Is it an in-person job? Then no one who wants that job would be stupid enough to say otherwise.

We’re a small team (3) who works in-person by coincidence of being local, but we are explicitly open to remote within overlapping time zones.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#269

Post by wankerrific »

How about just reconfiguring bullpen office back to semi private cubicles or tiny phone room offices? Make the office a place to come to for a better work environment.

Let’s be honest- these bullpen setups suck and very few people want to “return” to that.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#270

Post by tonnydourado »

There aren't that many actual employers responding, but I read several of these comments, and kinda starting to see a pattern: clichês, anecdotes, no nuance, no acknowledgement that the world has changed, or that teams, jobs, and people, can be different then your own experiences

Y'all are not looking good, bosses.

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