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If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

muezza.ca

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Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#41

Post by AstixAndBelix »

When I really think about the kinds of things I find essential in a computer, almost everything could be achieved with a TUI or a very light GUI.

Unfortunately, the problem of proprietary software and APIs is always around the corner. I can use a TUI client for Telegram, but I can't if I want to message someone on Facebook. I can use a simple newsreader for blogs, but I can't for my friends' Instagram posts.

I could honestly scrap by with a 20yo computer if the world was more open sourced. Such a shame

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#42

Post by goosedragons »

AprilArcus wrote: post #2

Would love know more about the "dire state" of ppc32 linux

No big distro supports it and I can only think of one that still does (Adelie). Modern web browsers won't easily compile for it, probably other packages. And soon support for GPUs like the ATI Rage commonly used in 1998-2001ish era Macs will be removed from the kernel.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#43

Post by pdimitar »

hirako2000 wrote: post #40
pdimitar wrote: post #6

The problem with arguments like these is to me two-fold: 1. Physical space. Most of the older tech takes too much space. I don't live in a mansion and I have no dedicated rooms just for big bulky computers. 2. Power consumption, heat, noise. I would love to be less consumerist and use stuff from 15 years ago and stop feeding greedy corporations but... the old stuff consumes 90 to 200 watts, heats up easily and notice…

I took your concerns to some extreme. Idle at 4 watts, about 10 watts maxing the 4 cores. 88 dollars. Keyboard excluded. https://streamable.com/roro2y

lol. :D

Appreciate the dedication!

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#44

Post by mro_name »

johnklos wrote: post #33

There are lots of people in the comments here who appear to not get it. This isn't about replacing a contemporary computer with something old. It's about the usability of a decent OS on very modest hardware. One of the systems on which I run NetBSD is a 33 MHz m68030 Mac LC III+ ( http://elsie.zia.io - it's hosting a site about an LC II, which I'm still working on). It's quite useful to see how assumptions people mak…

indeed, developing fast software requires slow hardware.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#45

Post by horsawlarway »

rakoo wrote: post #30
pdimitar wrote: post #6

The problem with arguments like these is to me two-fold: 1. Physical space. Most of the older tech takes too much space. I don't live in a mansion and I have no dedicated rooms just for big bulky computers. 2. Power consumption, heat, noise. I would love to be less consumerist and use stuff from 15 years ago and stop feeding greedy corporations but... the old stuff consumes 90 to 200 watts, heats up easily and notice…

In digital, pollution happens during construction way more than usage. It still makes sense to use a decade-old computer. The second-hand market is filled with material that was built at same point; you having access to your nice second hand laptop is due to newer laptops being built all the time. It is still sending a signal upstream that such a computer can be sold. I do agree that buying second hand is much better…

> It still makes sense to use a decade-old computer.

I don't really think it does, at least not some of them.

A lot of those older machines are just running really, really high idle power draw. Ex: Pentium 4/5, Core 2 Duo, Athlon64, etc. Running from 40 to 100 watts idle.

For comparison, a new RPI will go as low as ~1-3 watt idle, tops out at ~5-7 watts under full load, and will generally have better performance characteristics.

I run a lot of old machines in my basement because it can make sense (I throw them in a k8s farm), but I also generally have them spend a week on an electricity meter first (honestly, just a function of the UPS I run down there) and anything drawing more than 20 watts idle gets sent to the recycling instead.

The bad ones tend to run high + hot + loud, and they absolutely aren't worth it.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#46

Post by pdimitar »

horsawlarway wrote: post #45
rakoo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In digital, pollution happens during construction way more than usage. It still makes sense to use a decade-old computer. The second-hand market is filled with material that was built at same point; you having access to your nice second hand laptop is due to newer laptops being built all the time. It is still sending a signal upstream that such a computer can be sold. I do agree that buying second hand is much better…

> It still makes sense to use a decade-old computer. I don't really think it does, at least not some of them. A lot of those older machines are just running really, really high idle power draw. Ex: Pentium 4/5, Core 2 Duo, Athlon64, etc. Running from 40 to 100 watts idle. For comparison, a new RPI will go as low as ~1-3 watt idle, tops out at ~5-7 watts under full load, and will generally have better performance char…

Can you link to your UPS? I'm on the lookout for a good one that doesn't make a lot of noise and has a built-in watt-meter for each of its sockets.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#47

Post by c-smile »

> computer e.g. in the shape of a 10" netbook I'll buy it immediately

Haven't tried OpenBSD but Windows 11 works quite well Samsung Galaxy Book 2 (ARM):

https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/26/18024696/samsung-galaxy-...

It has superb monitor, touchpad, touchscreen, pen and detachable keyboard.

I am running Visual Studio 2022 on it to build Sciter - quite convenient to test and debug handling of those input devices.

It is really quite good machine for mobile use.

You can buy second hand Samsung Galaxy Book 2 for ~200-300 USD

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#48

Post by gorky1 »

nativecoinc wrote: post #22

I mostly use my work computer in my free time. The ultimate test: can you develop Java on it? (In practice, not in principle.)

Intellij Idea on Linux runs surprisingly well on 15 year old T400 Thinkpads. It's actually pleasant to use for small hobby Java projects.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#49

Post by zozbot234 »

goosedragons wrote: post #42
AprilArcus wrote: post #2

Would love know more about the "dire state" of ppc32 linux

No big distro supports it and I can only think of one that still does (Adelie). Modern web browsers won't easily compile for it, probably other packages. And soon support for GPUs like the ATI Rage commonly used in 1998-2001ish era Macs will be removed from the kernel.

Isn't there an unofficial Debian port? Stuff can be added back to the kernel if people commit to maintain it and keep it in line with the evolving code base.

Re: If you're happy with OpenBSD, probably any computer is good enough

#50

Post by prmoustache »

mjhay wrote: post #8
sourcecodeplz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard there's quite the group here on HN that browse the web on CLI browsers.

It's not something that's remotely practical on most modern sites. I hate everything new as well, but at some point it's easier to just suck it up and face the hell that is the modern internet.

The thing is w3m really filter yourself out of the shitty web. Most interesting websites are quite readable on w3m. The ones that aren't are usually the worst ones or thoses that provide an api for which better gui and tui clients exist.
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