Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#51

Post by joyfylbanana » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:01 PM UTC

I'm not a direct employer, mostly an investor and solo entrepreneur who has low likelihood of ever employing people again. Used to be a big employer until sold my company.

Personally I have seen lots of different work in my previous work, and I just don't believe that remote work provides as much value for the shareholders. Productivity is likely better as remote, but the communication and trust issues cause problems. People often end up working on wrong things.

Personally I won't be investing in remote-only companies, unless it is somehow extremely stellar project.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#52

Post by scotty79 » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:02 PM UTC

Not an employer but I noticed that after 2 years of working remotely I feel like I have enough. Not just enough of working remotely. Enough of working at all.

Then again I don't think I ever stayed in any company for more then 2 years so that just might be me.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#53

Post by GiorgioG » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:02 PM UTC

josefrichter wrote: post #2

Not an employer. But I believe most employees simply put in less hours when working from home, and most employers aren't very good at rewarding people for their results, not their hours.

> But I believe most employees simply put in less hours when working from home

What do you have to back up your belief? I work from 8-6 on most days +/- 30 minutes. Lunch is a walk downstairs, grab something and eat it at my desk. That's pretty typical of the group of engineers I've been working with remotely on/off for the past 15 years. I don't think we're exceptional in this regard.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#54

Post by stuckonempty » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:02 PM UTC

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #13

watwut wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a reason why an employee would go to the office. But not really something employer would care about - they don't care about employees social lifes in other contexts.

I disagree, that's exactly why an employer would want that. Team cohesion is important.

Team cohesion is important as far as being able to work collaboratively to finish a project, but it’s not clear that requires being in an office every day for 8+ hrs

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#55

Post by wankle » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:02 PM UTC

cloudwalking wrote: post #4

People need social connections with their peers to work together successfully. It's much easier to build these connections in the office than virtually. Seeing each other a couple times per quarter for an extended period could also work, but it's easier--if you already have an office space--to bring people together in the office once or twice a week.

"People need social connections with their peers to work together successfully."

Our team doesn't, are we anomalies? People need to be mature, reasonable, responsible and accountable to work together well.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#56

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:02 PM UTC

yablak wrote: post #17

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just get rid of the office space and use the money saved to get people together twice per quarter for an extended period? I bet in almost every case it would be a significant cost savings for the employer. Unless, of course, there is some other reasoning than what you state in your comment, like for example, middle management feeling irrelevant or sunk cost fallacy on office space?

It's very hard to get people to travel for days at a time. Especially those with children.

> It's very hard to get people to travel for days at a time.

I believe parent is suggesting quarterly gatherings of the existing office team, the ones who share an office now.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#57

Post by prng2021 » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:02 PM UTC

I have a very hard time believing people are so out of touch with reality that they don’t understand why employers want people in the office.

You’re not in back to back meetings from the moment you start work until you finish. Not all meetings involve teams in other geographies and even ones that do might still be one where most people in the call are from one city.

While in office, every single person talks to coworkers at many random times throughout the day. That builds comradery within and across teams. That, in turn, means each employee cares more about their job and the success of the people around them. That in turn, makes it harder for them to look for other jobs because your not just completing some tasks from day to day like a machine. It’s not just boring chit chat either. You’ll sometimes briefly turn your chair or walk a few steps to get someone’s opinion/ideas about something you’re stuck on with your work and vice versa.

Aside from this, having people in the office reduces the number of people who slack off during the day. This point shouldn’t be glossed over. Not only does it hurt productivity, depending on the type of job, that will put extra burden on others on the team. A slacker could at the very least take on some of the work of others and that reduces overall stress and improves overall morale.

I love remote work and would hate having to go back to the office more than a couple times a week. That said, I can still be objective and understand the viewpoint of someone running a company and wanting in person collaboration.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#58

Post by Moto7451 » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:02 PM UTC

I can't speak directly for the people you're actually asking. I'm involved in these meetings at my workplace. I don't agree with the call to bring everyone back to the office even though I like working from an office. I've been fully remote since before the pandemic but I like seeing coworkers. I'd like to think I can "see it both ways." I voted against bringing people back but I lack the all important "C" or "V" in front of my title so my opinion carries little weight.

From my company's discussions, my take is that it's hard for the C suite to feel connected to employees without face to face time. Why? Probably the very basic issue of 1 on 500 or 1 on 5000 communication, which is hard in person and even more so online. I don't mean 1 on 500/5000 presenting, I mean the exchange of ideas and gaining understanding of the people that work for you. If you're a front line manager or sufficiently senior on the IC track then you likely had to learn new techniques to communicate in 1 on 10 and 1 on 20 engagements. It's harder to scale that to 1 to 500 or so.

If you hold the power of sword and purse, then it's "easier" to mandate that people work from a location you can easily travel to.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#59

Post by lostlogin » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:04 PM UTC

cloudwalking wrote: post #4

People need social connections with their peers to work together successfully. It's much easier to build these connections in the office than virtually. Seeing each other a couple times per quarter for an extended period could also work, but it's easier--if you already have an office space--to bring people together in the office once or twice a week.

> People need social connections with their peers to work together successfully

One size very much does not fit all, and that’s the entire point that those who prefer remote work are trying to drive home.

Re: Ask HN: Employers, why do you want us back in the office?

#60

Post by ttul » Sun, Feb 05, 2023, 7:04 PM UTC

Employer here. We had a fancy brick and timber office. It was beautiful and centrally located. I let the lease expire in 2021 after everyone went remote for the pandemic. There has been no sign of any decay in productivity.

It is true that hanging out in person develops a sense of human connection that feels good. But is that needed for effective work? I’m not so sure.

Brainstorming and creative collaboration activities seem more effective when done in person, so we have periodic “off-site” retreats for a day or two, or we meet at a conference. But most of work is just grinding. That works perfectly well from a home office.