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We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

aljazeera.com

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Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#201

Post by theragra »

quantified wrote: post #182
theragra wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT would be hard to convince people to stop procreating en masse

That's why giving up is so attractive. We will procreate our way beyond all sustainability. Our economies have been arranged to require continual population growth, only disease and war correct it. When populations stabilize or drop, the call goes out to get people from Africa and the Middle East where birthrates are high. So continual world war seems the only way to become sustainable.

But do we? Population growth slows down at certain level of quality of life, no secret there. If you want for this to happen worldwide, make sure riches are distributed better than now. Still unlikely utopia, but easier than laws against having children

Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#202

Post by Swenrekcah »

collyw wrote: post #189
Swenrekcah wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is cherrypicking. Sure, predictions vary and some turn out to be too pessimistic, others too optimistic. The general trend is clear however and has been for decades.

Cherrypicking is exactly what both sides do. Every extreme weather event is now pointed at as "evidence". It would be nice to have both sides heard and debated instead of the hysteria led media we get. Look into Bjorn Lomborg. I have no idea how accurate his stuff is, but he is the only one that actually seems to take a pragmatic approach to the problem and looks at the bigger picture

No it’s not.

The trend is clear, the world is warming, we know the mechanism, we know the cause and we can calculate at least some of the results and we know they’re bad.

People saying “oh but things are always changing, there used to be an ice age” and things like that, completely ignore the pace of change.

You don’t need to panic but please don’t bury your head in the sand.

Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#203

Post by starkd »

unethical_ban wrote: post #198
starkd wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you take peoples' stated intention at face value? Can people not be greedy just by becoming avowed socialists? Hahahahahahahahahaha! The Castro Brothers, Hugo Chavez, and many others were some of the richest people in the world. These are not exceptions; they are generally the rule!

Telling that you invoke those leaders rather than the countries of northern Europe. In any case, I can't tell how your original comment aligned with the discussion about carbon offset credits, or more off-topic, how you think limiting carbon output is somehow not a worthy goal of reducing climate change.

Well, for one, trying to reduce carbon output diverts attention other environmental concerns - like waste management, resource depletion, particulate pollution, recycling, etc. (When is the last time you heard about environmentalists trying to solve those issues?) Second, it gives blanket permission to regulate virtually every aspect of your life. Across the board. Whether it is needed or not. It is also highly presumptions to think that we can effectively control it to the degree it will actually make a significant difference without crashing the economy. And by crashing the economy, I don't just mean the rich sacrificing some of their salary. I mean, people starving or freezing to death.

Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#204

Post by dr_dshiv »

carapace wrote: post #199
dr_dshiv wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure seems tough to convince people to voluntarily consume less. Relying on that as a strategy seems… fraught.

Yeah, I agree with that. Unfortunately, it seems to me that we're going to overshoot on climate and it's going to be bad: mass migrations, mass starvation, war... I feel like there's a narrow window here to choose our future, but that's likely an illusion or conceit. For myself, I'm leaning toward becoming some sort of prepper, not politically nor ideologically, but as a kind of Pascal's Wager with the possibility of…

& that’s why I’m really surprised why people don’t take geoengineering more seriously. Like, if the climate naturally changed, we’d need to do it also. So why not now?

Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#205

Post by sacrosancty »

distances wrote: post #162
sacrosancty wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They must be recycling enough of it to recover their £30. They may dump the unrecyclable parts into the ocean, but nobody doubts there are unrecyclable things mixed in with it. It can't be 100% recycled.

In this scenario they don't pay for the plastic. They receive £30 and a tonne of plastic.

[dead]

Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#206

Post by garbagecoder »

jacooper wrote: post #159
garbagecoder wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did and if you don't consider the source then I'm not sure what kind of reader you are. Al-Jazeera English is happy to publish some of the most lefty writers on other topics but strangely not here.

Huh? They have a dedicated page just for climate change https://www.aljazeera.com/climate-crisis/

Both-sidesism on climate is hardly an exoneration of their media position. If you think the Qatari government and its media arm are above reproach, then I don't know what to say.

Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#207

Post by carapace »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #204
carapace wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree with that. Unfortunately, it seems to me that we're going to overshoot on climate and it's going to be bad: mass migrations, mass starvation, war... I feel like there's a narrow window here to choose our future, but that's likely an illusion or conceit. For myself, I'm leaning toward becoming some sort of prepper, not politically nor ideologically, but as a kind of Pascal's Wager with the possibility of…

& that’s why I’m really surprised why people don’t take geoengineering more seriously. Like, if the climate naturally changed, we’d need to do it also. So why not now?

it's been a bit of a slog just to get people to take climate change itself more seriously, eh?

Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#208

Post by KajMagnus »

tmtvl wrote: post #168
distances wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this scenario they don't pay for the plastic. They receive £30 and a tonne of plastic.

To expand on this for anyone who doesn't quite follow, the government pays citizens £60 for recycling, which requires a certificate of proof, a citizen can give their plastic and £30 to a company for a certificate, but the company doesn't actually do the recycling.

> the government pays citizens £60 for recycling

The government might as well be part of such fraud too? What do they care, if the plastics is not actually recycled.

But if they cay say to the voters, "Now we're recycling all plastics", then, some more votes, they'll get, in the next elections? (Maybe just a few more votes, if most voters also don't care)

Re: We are ‘greening’ ourselves to extinction

#209

Post by [deleted] »

notacoward wrote: post #180
rootusrootus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't met that many people who think we can do it in a year. But it won't happen in 27 years if we don't make a consistent effort every year between now and then.

The key is to make the right efforts. Putting so much passion into "build more bike lanes", discouraging people from buying EVs or installing solar "because of the environmental cost" etc. either doesn't move the needle or moves it in the wrong direction. It is its own form of greenwashing. What we need to do is look at the actual flows of carbon-energy production and usage, and work our way down from the biggest to…

[deleted]
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