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Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

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Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#311
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in ML for awhile (on the MLOps side of things) and have been in the industry for a bit, and one thing that I think is extremely common is for ML researchers to grossly underestimate the amount of work needed to make improvements. We've been a year away from full self driving cars for the last six years, and it seems like people are getting more cautious in their timing around that instead of getting more…

You have just described Pareto's principle[0] the 80/20 rule. It takes 20% of the effort to get to 80% but it then takes 80% of the the effort to finish the final 20%. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

The thing with software is, it happens slowly... then it happens all at once.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#312
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in ML for awhile (on the MLOps side of things) and have been in the industry for a bit, and one thing that I think is extremely common is for ML researchers to grossly underestimate the amount of work needed to make improvements. We've been a year away from full self driving cars for the last six years, and it seems like people are getting more cautious in their timing around that instead of getting more…

You have just described Pareto's principle[0] the 80/20 rule. It takes 20% of the effort to get to 80% but it then takes 80% of the the effort to finish the final 20%. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

AI seems like Pareto's principle combined with Zeno's paradox.

Not because goal posts keep moving, but because we can only do 80% of the remaining distance each time, and the remaining 20% is still obvious.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kurzweil gets a lot of flack for this sort of thing, he's generally presented as the ridiculous hype man for AI. And yet, he bet in 2002 that an AI would pass the Turing test by 2029. (And this is actually a more conservative prediction than "we will have AGI by 2029.") And looking at GPT3 it seems like he is probably going to win that bet.

I think the big revolution of the last few years has been to recognize that we'll likely get robots that can pass the turing test well before we get full self driving vehicles that can run anywhere there are basically ordinary paved roads. I think even three years ago, most people would have thought the reverse. So Kurzweil was imagining the turing test as the capstone to a decade of more and more capable ai products…

The Turing test has always been hazy - I don't think it's something we'll consider "passed" until at least a clear majority consider it passed (if not substantially further).

Otherwise you risk claiming ELIZA passed it, because a couple people thought so. Or that one Google employee this time.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#314
post #61
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps, this likely is coming. I think we have a tendency to mentally move the goalposts when it comes to this kind of thing as a self-defense mechanism. Years ago this would have been a similar level of impossibility. Since all a codebase like that is is a kind of directed graph, then augmentations to the processing of the network to allow for the simultaneous parsing of and generation of this kind of code may…

I've worked in ML for awhile (on the MLOps side of things) and have been in the industry for a bit, and one thing that I think is extremely common is for ML researchers to grossly underestimate the amount of work needed to make improvements. We've been a year away from full self driving cars for the last six years, and it seems like people are getting more cautious in their timing around that instead of getting more…

I can understand that. I think that might be somewhat of a quick generalization. There are tendencies of people in the field to sometimes jump to rapid conclusions, but that is not researchers at all or in this case, me. I tend to be incredibly conservative, for example, and I have tangled with a number of "real world" systems enough to know some of the intricacies (though not at the edge).

If I were to make a point as to why your notes on self-driving cars and in-warehouse robots may not transfer to the case of software development, it's that they are fundamentally two very different problems with very different issues attached to them. It unfortunately is very much apples to oranges. They are both NP-hard but very different kinds of NP-hard.

A software program is a closed-loop target, though it is NP-hard. But we're optimizing for a different kind of metric here that is well-defined. Any kind of self-directed reinforcement-or-otherwise autoregressive-in-the-world algorithm is going to have an extraordinarily long tail of edge cases.

What I was talking about when I mentioned the geometry of the problem is not the parsing of the code, but the geometry of a near-optimal solution. Certainly, scale will be expensive, but Sutton is our friend here. That's why it's more "trivial" than problems that require humans in the loop -- you don't need humans to parse, structure, generate, and evaluate the data flow of a software code base, though admittedly if models like RHLF become popular as you noted, the endpoints that generate code under those geometric constraints -- those will become extremely expensive.

I think the geometric problem is very hard but the hurdle of scaled language models is more technically impressive to me.

What's nice is that unlike needing to generate a long, 1d story, too, there's more robustness with a huge field of possibility that's had years of work on the software side of things. It's not that it's going to be easy, but I think we've all grown as we've seen how hard self-driving cars are, and it's just not that kind of scenario, since all consequences of the 'world' within the repo-generation case are (for the most part) self-contained.

I hope that helps elucidate the problems a bit. To me, my optimism is much more rare, and only generally when I feel like I have a solid grasp of the fundamentals of it enough (i.e. I roughly know deliverability and have decent known error bounds on the sub-problems).

That said, I heartily agree with you that when all else fails -- assistive is good. What I see a "complete solution" doing well is creating a Kolmogorov-minimal, complete starting point and things evolving from there. Whether that works or not remains to be seen.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of criticism towards modern software engineer interviewing techniques, but never a solution offered that would catch and reject BS. Your comment comes off as "hire a person because you get along with them, don't worry if they can't write a function that accomplishes a simple task".

You're literally a subject matter expert on whatever you work on. It's extremely troubling if you can't catch BS'ers with a deep technical conversation. If you feel the need to separately establish that they can actually code, take your pick of GitHub, fizzbuzz, etc. You're probably doing one of these before the LC round anyway.

[deleted]

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#316

I think tests should be easy for ChatGPT to pass. It has been trained on data that has the answers and it's good at getting the data. I'm starting to doubt its long term usefulness since it does not seem to have good decision making abilities and even the slightest bit of cognitive ability. I suspect the current crop of AIs will find very specific functions and hit a hard stop. They will change how we function but we…

I don't think it's appropriate to mention Watson in the same space as Chat. GPT is perhaps humanities greatest innovation since the wheel, and Watson was nothing more than a scam

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#317
post #281
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Challenge. I can barely remember what I had for breakfast yesterday much less.. the entire knowledge base of chatgpt

I could bulshit well enough on the facts that I don't know same as chatgpt. Say it with confidence and you'll be fine

Which works extremely well in practice, as demonstrated by tons of social engineering tricks and hacks and pickup artists and bridge sales and whatnot. Studies show it works 37% of the time, every time, regardless of the target, so it's more of a numbers game (i.e. simply try more) than something that needs accuracy.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#318
post #286
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new article doesn't match at all the topic of the previous article.

It partly does: the last section of the CNBC article is "ChatGPT would be hired as a level 3 engineer". Most of the CNBC article, and the title, are about other things though.

The title on HN used to be about ChatGPT passing the interview bar, which is what all the top comments are about. It’s remarkable how biased and Google-friendly the moderating is here.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#319
post #35
post #5

So, a LLM, trained extensively on StackOverflow and other data (possibly the plethora of LC solutions out there), is fed a bunch of LC questions and spits out the correct solutions? In other news, water is blue. It is one thing to train an AI on megatons of data, for questions which have solutions. The day ChatGPT can build a highly scalable system from scratch, or an ultra-low latency trading system that beats the c…

> The rest of us aren't going to care that much. If you don't adapt, you'll be out of a job in ten years. Maybe sooner. Or maybe your salary will drop to $50k/yr because anyone will be able to glue together engineering modules. I say this as an engineer that solved "hard problems" like building distributed, high throughput, active/active systems; bespoke consensus protocols; real time optics and photogrammetry; etc.…

We cannot be too sure about the hard problems, but it's certain we are screwed either way. The bulk stuff that is being done is problems that have been already solved. It's just sufficient that AI can thrive building boring CRUD apps (and aren't we at that point already?), just give it time to be integrated into existing business workflows and the number of available positions will shrink by an order of magnitude and the salaries will be nothing special compared to other white collar work. You will be impacted by supply and demand, no matter what your skills are.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could have an AI winter if we just banned AI research. The military would be tasked with confiscating the compute hardware.

Why would we do that? How would we do that? Banning research is just not feasible.

I wouldn’t want to do that. I know that I will be replaced by a machine and I am trying to optimize my personal life to cope for this as well as possible. Part of my personal steps include the amassing of vast wealth so I can avoid a slip into the plebeian UBI class, who will have no agency at all.

Now, If you wanted to resist that and give humanity a few more hundred years, you would clog the bottlenecks on AI progress, which are research talent, data and compute.

If you marched the police into NeurIPS and the military into the datacenters, and you coordinated with other large countries to do the same, and you strongarmed those countries that resisted to do the same, you could get pretty darn far. We humans have managed to greatly slow down the rollout of nuclear technology. We may be able to do the same with AI, if someone figures out which political movement will get into power next, and tells them to read the enlightened writings of Elizier Yudkowsky.

I would also like an “Extinction Rebellion” or “Just Stop Oil” style movement against the artificial intelligence industry, as I appreciate their rebellious and leftist aesthetics.

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