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What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

practical.engineering

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Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#251

Post by mrtesthah »

yucky wrote: post #250
mrtesthah wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much rather be white in applying to any of those things. It’s a pretty obvious choice. BLACK AND WHITE: ACCESS TO CAPITAL AMONG MINORITY-OWNED STARTUPS https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w28154/w281... Job Applicants With ‘Black Names’ Still Less Likely to Get Interviews https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-29/job-appli... As to your comment about asians, my last reply already explain…

Fascinating that despite the fact that DEI initiatives would give you a huge advantage you still wouldn't want to be black. I guess that says something. And FYI that names study has been debunked a number of times. They didn't test stereotypically low class white names like Wilbur, Billy Bob, Roscoe, Harlan etc. for males or Crystal, Daisy, etc. for females.

If you think that black people have a “huge advantage” in society then you need to educate yourself.

There’s plenty of data on hiring discrimination for you:

https://hbr.org/2017/10/hiring-discrimination-against-black-...

I’ve literally had someone whose job it was to read resumes for their company straight up admit to me that they throw resumes with black-sounding names straight into the trash.

You still didn’t respond to my comment, which spelled out very clearly the role of racial discrimination in society that you seem to interested in denying. Instead, you change the topic from criminalization to college admissions. I wonder why.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#252

Post by yucky »

mrtesthah wrote: post #251
yucky wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating that despite the fact that DEI initiatives would give you a huge advantage you still wouldn't want to be black. I guess that says something. And FYI that names study has been debunked a number of times. They didn't test stereotypically low class white names like Wilbur, Billy Bob, Roscoe, Harlan etc. for males or Crystal, Daisy, etc. for females.

If you think that black people have a “huge advantage” in society then you need to educate yourself. There’s plenty of data on hiring discrimination for you: https://hbr.org/2017/10/hiring-discrimination-against-black-... I’ve literally had someone whose job it was to read resumes for their company straight up admit to me that they throw resumes with black-sounding names straight into the trash. You still didn’t resp…

Do you not know what DEI initiatives at large companies are and what they do? And did you know that there is a case in front of the Supreme Court where it was proven that Asians were disadvantaged in admissions due to their race because Harvard wanted to increase their percentage of black and Hispanic students?

So yes, there is an advantage when a company or a school specifically sets out to bring you in because you have the right skin color.

As far as racial discrimination in society (institutional racial preferences), my take on it is that race should never be used as a factor in hiring, sentencing, admissions etc. Individual racism is what it is. If I walk down the street and someone calls me a cracker or says they hate white people or whatever, that sucks and is unfortunate but ultimately you can't do anything about it because people will think how they think. It's the institutionalized racial preferences that do the most harm, and those need to change.

  > I’ve literally had someone whose job it was to read resumes for their company straight up admit to me that they throw resumes with black-sounding names straight into the trash.
Oh yeah? Which company? That's highly illegal so I'm assuming you informed the boss and filed a complaint with the EEOC right?

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#253

Post by mrtesthah »

yucky wrote: post #252
mrtesthah wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that black people have a “huge advantage” in society then you need to educate yourself. There’s plenty of data on hiring discrimination for you: https://hbr.org/2017/10/hiring-discrimination-against-black-... I’ve literally had someone whose job it was to read resumes for their company straight up admit to me that they throw resumes with black-sounding names straight into the trash. You still didn’t resp…

Do you not know what DEI initiatives at large companies are and what they do? And did you know that there is a case in front of the Supreme Court where it was proven that Asians were disadvantaged in admissions due to their race because Harvard wanted to increase their percentage of black and Hispanic students? So yes, there is an advantage when a company or a school specifically sets out to bring you in because you…

Guess what millions of individual instances of racism amount to, when those instances involve people with power using it against those who lack it? It becomes systemic, institutionalized. American society has held this bias against blacks for literally hundreds of years. Deliberate institutional preference in the other direction is the very least we can try to do to make up for that historical legacy, and even those efforts amount to a vanishingly small difference.

Which company? They’re in central Indiana. Not telling an unknown internet stranger who apparently argues in bad faith.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#254

Post by yucky »

mrtesthah wrote: post #253
yucky wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not know what DEI initiatives at large companies are and what they do? And did you know that there is a case in front of the Supreme Court where it was proven that Asians were disadvantaged in admissions due to their race because Harvard wanted to increase their percentage of black and Hispanic students? So yes, there is an advantage when a company or a school specifically sets out to bring you in because you…

Guess what millions of individual instances of racism amount to, when those instances involve people with power using it against those who lack it? It becomes systemic, institutionalized. American society has held this bias against blacks for literally hundreds of years. Deliberate institutional preference in the other direction is the very least we can try to do to make up for that historical legacy, and even those…

  > Guess what millions of individual instances of racism amount to, when those instances involve people with power using it against those who lack it? It becomes systemic, institutionalized.
And yet all of the actual institutionalized policies that consider race, favor non-whites or non-Asians.

  > Which company? They’re in central Indiana.
Uh-huh. And what did the EEOC do when you gave them that information? What did the company leadership do when you informed them that one of their employees was violating multiple federal laws?

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#255

Post by mrtesthah »

yucky wrote: post #254
mrtesthah wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess what millions of individual instances of racism amount to, when those instances involve people with power using it against those who lack it? It becomes systemic, institutionalized. American society has held this bias against blacks for literally hundreds of years. Deliberate institutional preference in the other direction is the very least we can try to do to make up for that historical legacy, and even those…

> Guess what millions of individual instances of racism amount to, when those instances involve people with power using it against those who lack it? It becomes systemic, institutionalized. And yet all of the actual institutionalized policies that consider race, favor non-whites or non-Asians. > Which company? They’re in central Indiana. Uh-huh. And what did the EEOC do when you gave them that information? What did t…

> And yet all of the actual institutionalized policies that consider race, favor non-whites or non-Asians.

In case you couldn't guess, the point is to support systemically marginalized groups. white and asian people have not been subject to slavery, jim crow laws, sundown laws, redlining, voter disenfranchisement, targeted mass incarceration, etc.

I'll answer your question after you respond to literally any of the things I've said so far in my comments. And I've got some questions for you: Why should I believe that someone who claims that white supremacy doesn't even exist cares about EEOC complaints? Do you think that such disingenuous questions convey your points more effectively, or less? Is there a reason that each new reply shifts the rhetorical goalposts?

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#256

Post by yucky »

mrtesthah wrote: post #255
yucky wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guess what millions of individual instances of racism amount to, when those instances involve people with power using it against those who lack it? It becomes systemic, institutionalized. And yet all of the actual institutionalized policies that consider race, favor non-whites or non-Asians. > Which company? They’re in central Indiana. Uh-huh. And what did the EEOC do when you gave them that information? What did t…

> And yet all of the actual institutionalized policies that consider race, favor non-whites or non-Asians. In case you couldn't guess, the point is to support systemically marginalized groups. white and asian people have not been subject to slavery, jim crow laws, sundown laws, redlining, voter disenfranchisement, targeted mass incarceration, etc. I'll answer your question after you respond to literally any of the th…

  > In case you couldn't guess, the point is to support systemically marginalized groups. white and asian people have not been subject to slavery, jim crow laws, sundown laws, redlining, voter disenfranchisement, targeted mass incarceration, etc.
Why are you pretending FDR and the Democrats didn't round up Asian Americans, strip them of their possessions and throw them into internment camps during World War II, simply because of their race? And what about all of the discrimination faced by Jews (who are white)?

See this is the problem with supporting policies that favor people based on their race. It always ends badly and causes racial animosity.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#257

Post by mrtesthah »

yucky wrote: post #256
mrtesthah wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet all of the actual institutionalized policies that consider race, favor non-whites or non-Asians. In case you couldn't guess, the point is to support systemically marginalized groups. white and asian people have not been subject to slavery, jim crow laws, sundown laws, redlining, voter disenfranchisement, targeted mass incarceration, etc. I'll answer your question after you respond to literally any of the th…

> In case you couldn't guess, the point is to support systemically marginalized groups. white and asian people have not been subject to slavery, jim crow laws, sundown laws, redlining, voter disenfranchisement, targeted mass incarceration, etc. Why are you pretending FDR and the Democrats didn't round up Asian Americans, strip them of their possessions and throw them into internment camps during World War II, simply…

Why do you think I’m pretending I’m not?

The real problem is that you’re implicitly taking the position that aiding specific groups of people is a zero-sum game. Should the US government give reparations for what they did to Japanese americans during WWII? Absolutely. Should germany and other european countries give reparations for Jewish families as a result of the holocaust? Absolutely.

Do poor white americans from appalachia deserve economic aid from the government after such prolonged disinvestment? Of course.

And while it makes sense to offer these groups economic-based college admissions support, it doesn't make sense to do so purely on the basis of ethnicity/race, as those groups demonstrably don't face the same level of institutionalized discrimination as blacks. Though such measures would have been warranted for Jews and Asians for a good part of the 20th century.

But guess what—none of these remedies are in conflict with each other. At no point does actively correcting the massive generational wealth and education imbalance that black americans face, take away from correcting what any other group of minoritized people is owed.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#258

Post by yucky »

mrtesthah wrote: post #257
yucky wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In case you couldn't guess, the point is to support systemically marginalized groups. white and asian people have not been subject to slavery, jim crow laws, sundown laws, redlining, voter disenfranchisement, targeted mass incarceration, etc. Why are you pretending FDR and the Democrats didn't round up Asian Americans, strip them of their possessions and throw them into internment camps during World War II, simply…

Why do you think I’m pretending I’m not? The real problem is that you’re implicitly taking the position that aiding specific groups of people is a zero-sum game. Should the US government give reparations for what they did to Japanese americans during WWII? Absolutely . Should germany and other european countries give reparations for Jewish families as a result of the holocaust? Absolutely . Do poor white americans fr…

Every problem you're describing is solved by simply attaching programs to need, not skin color.

Re: What happened with the substation attack in North Carolina?

#259

Post by akiselev »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #169
mc32 wrote: post #5

"Officials have stopped short of calling it an act of terrorism, presumably because we don’t know the motive of whoever perpetrated the act" There was another one elsewhere [Washington state [1]] and they found out the perps did it to facilitate knocking over some business of some sort. So, just because it quacks like a duck does not mean it either walks like a duck nor end ends up being a duck. There have also been…

I really don’t understand this thread…many times on HN, you’ll hear things like Occam’s Razor (follow the simplest explanation), cite official sources, etc. Here, we have an official report from the prosecutor stating that people attacked substations in furtherance of theft but a lot of people are trying to pin it as part of a larger conspiracy against the government. Like we should tell conspiracy theorists, the bur…

Conspiracy to commit theft vs conspiracy to overthrow the government?

Which one requires fewer assumptions? What are the assumptions anyway? That crazy people can buy guns in America?

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