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U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s ironic to see a South Korean say this when all you need to do is look across the border to see what a Chinese supported alternative looks like.

Are you being serious right now? The sorry looks of North Korea has nothing to do with China's support and everything to do with the fact that America has been beating and sanctioning the shit out of it since the day of it's inception. This kind of behavior followed by this kind of rhetorics is exactly why half-the-world hates you so much. Disgusting, I can't believe you aren't trolling right now.

North Korea's communist dictatorship would have been overthrown decades ago if not for China's support of it.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#542

Sidestepping the geopolitical issues with this for a moment ... What advantage is there to using a high altitude balloon for surveillance? I have to imagine there are some - like longer loiter time over a specific point, maybe better optics because you are still in atmosphere, it's obviously cheaper than launching a satellite - but I don't really know enough about this kind of hardware to say. Or maybe the point wasn…

LiDAR, plus it could be a dry run for more advanced balloons with offensive capabilities.

The precursor to a strategic balloon arms race that it chills the blood to contemplate. All it takes is one push of the button and, 14 days later, death comes drifting in from above.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#543

How does a surveillance balloon get the collected data back to where it is analyzed and used? I suspect the data is relayed by satellite (unless there are collection sites within the US). Which Chinese satellites are able to cover the US?

It releases smaller data balloons.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#544
post #478

Sidestepping the geopolitical issues with this for a moment ... What advantage is there to using a high altitude balloon for surveillance? I have to imagine there are some - like longer loiter time over a specific point, maybe better optics because you are still in atmosphere, it's obviously cheaper than launching a satellite - but I don't really know enough about this kind of hardware to say. Or maybe the point wasn…

One of the most technically challenging things about reconnaissance satellites is dealing with the high speed at which the satellite moves over the target. A balloon flies much lower and vastly more slowly. It can loiter over an area, sucking in electronic signals and taking photographs with extremely high fidelity. I don’t think the Chinese meant for this balloon to cross the United States. I believe they were testi…

The route is almost impossible to be a coincidence though

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#545
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US didn't get any of the Iraqi Oil. Ironically, it was Europe and China who benefitted in that regard. Also notably, the US 5th fleet defends freedom of navigation in the Gulf, which is mostly about Oil, and China is the #1 recipient of Oil! Funny, that.

I'm sure those million dead people in iraq are glad the fifth fleet is protecting trade or that America didn't actually directly steal their oil. The same goes for the countless lives and futures ruined for the people still living with the consequences of the Gulf War. This is absurd and sounds exactly like a chinese nationalist rhetoric about what Mao did in the great leap forward. Hey, millions died, but think of h…

Yes, it's unfortute that Saddam invaded Kuwait.

Thankfully Iraq has some semblance of governance and has valuable Oil assets that it can export, courtesy of US taxpayers.

Iraq benefits far more from it's exports than the US gains from protecting them.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#546
post #338

I have been in "no politics, no news" mode for over a month. I try to do this about once a year. I have yet to tell my wife I do it, but when I am on this limited media consumption she always comments how pleasant I am to be around. I think it is a good thing for all of us to do once in a while, until 80 years ago most news was at best three or four days old, go back 120 years and you're getting only last weeks top t…

The Brain Washing of My Dad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS52QdHNTh8

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you asking for more information out of curiousity or are you also trying to imply that my assessment is incorrect? It is difficult to approach an answer to your question without knowing more about your expectations and intentions in asking it.

I am asking for more information and, preferably, sources. I am not an Asia politics expert, so the only thing came to my mind is the Chinese take on Taiwan.

People spend their entire careers understanding this topic and so I necessarily cannot answer it here except in it’s most fundamental form. Toward that end:

At its most basic level, China’s geopolitical goals are to increase its influence, status, and power in the world. This is not a controversial claim. As one small piece of support for this I’ll offer up this quote from one of the Chinese ambassadors during their negotiations to enter the WTO: "We know we have to play the game your way now, but in ten years we will set the rules"

If you google that quote verbatim you will find many sources that deal with China’s short and long term goals in much more detail.

This basic goal is not, necessarily, completely zero sum, but neither can it be accomplished to any significant degree without displacing some of the power & influence that the Western powers have in the world. This unavoidably brings the various sides & interests powers into conflict.

It is all much, much more complicated than this but this is a significant pillar in the foundations of China’s goals that put it at odds with the West. This alone is a strong influence on the economic conflicts and spats that arise.

That’s about the best I can do in a forum like HN without simplifying the details more than I think may be useful for this conversation. For further sources, that quote really is the key to a lot of foreign policy analysis and well-sourced research on the topic. You may also want to do a few quick searches on China’s 2049 plan along with the 100 Years of Humiliation and its social/cultural influence on Chinas view towards the western world and its economical and technological goals to enable greater self sufficiency.

I’d link to more direct sources but it’s late and I’m tired, and honestly searching on the specific terms and topics I mentioned will give you more and better information than is easily conveyed here.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#548
post #25

I had seen reports that the balloon was the length of 3-4 school busses but it appears that was misreported and just repeated. The PAYLOAD was the length of 3-4 school busses. I haven’t been following this much until today/ vaguely aware as an amusing background story. But, has anyone seen high res photos of the balloon or someone doing back of the envelope math on the size of the balloon portion? I ask simply becaus…

Judging from the videos that pan from the moon to the balloon: the balloon was about 3x smaller in the sky than the moon. Knowing the altitude of the balloon was 68,000 feet, we can fudge the distance from the observer to the balloon as 100,000 feet. Knowing the distance to the moon and the radius of the moon we can use like triangles to estimate that the balloon was ~285 feet across, +/- 20% for estimates.

Edit: updated the estimate. I got radius and diameter mixed up.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100000%2A%28diameter%20...

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#549
post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen some unconfirmed claims that they show it with a missile whose warhead fuse was disabled. Normally anti-aircraft missiles are proximity fused and throw out lots of fragments when they explode, kind of like a giant shotgun blast. With the warhead disabled presumably it just punctured the balloon to deflate it and, as you say, hopefully let it come down intact.

F-22s have a 20mm cannon, and they can operate at 65k feet. I don't know why they would need a disarmed missile just to poke a hole in it.

The official service ceiling of the F-22 is only 50,000 feet. There’s no doubt that it can fly higher (for example the F-15 set zoom climb records going up to nearly 100,000 ft) but at those altitudes controlling an aircraft gets a lot more difficult due to the thin air. If the F-22 _does_ have good control at those altitudes then using that capability for the shoot down would be revealing previously unknown (presumably classified) info about it. If it doesn’t, attempting a zoom climb close enough for a cannon shot would carry some risk… even if just risk of missing and having to try again while the whole world watches.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#550

Why didn't they use machine guns? Perhaps one reason was the risk that if they used machine guns, they would hit the balloon and crash the fighter. In that case, it would have provided China with the worst possible performance of shooting down a U.S. fighter with a Chinese balloon. On the other hand, if they used missiles and shot down the Chinese balloon with flair, we could advertise a strong and brave U.S. The U.S…

They probably wanted to bring the balloon down as quickly as possible once the decision to do so, and using an exploding warhead makes it easier to keep it in sight as it descended to make recovery easier. Projectile holes would likely just slowly leak for a while making descent take too long.
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