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Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

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Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#251

Post by Animats »

flangola7 wrote: post #144
bluesnowmonkey wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my experience watching How It’s Made, many factories are extremely automated including lots of robots. Warehouses are not factories though.

Lookup lights out manufacturing. There are factories that often run whole days in the dark because there's no point turning on the nights if there's no one around

Not really. Although running CNC milling machines and lathes unattended at night is reasonably common. Day shift sets them up, and they cut metal all night.

Fanuc, the robot manufacturer, famously does run a lights-out factory, and has since 2001. It was the dream of Fanuc's founder. Baosteel now has a lights-out steel coiling facility. Both of these are more PR than cost effective.

There are many factories where there are very, very few people for large rooms full of machines, though.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#252

Post by bagacrap »

janoc wrote: post #185

I think this says more about the Google interview process than about ChatGPT. That a machine learning model can "bullshit" its way through an interview that is heavily leaning on recall of memorized techniques, algorithms and "stock" problems that have solutions (of various quality) all over Internet is not exactly surprising. Machines will always be able to "cram" better than humans. In practice these questions are…

I see a lot of criticism towards modern software engineer interviewing techniques, but never a solution offered that would catch and reject BS.

Your comment comes off as "hire a person because you get along with them, don't worry if they can't write a function that accomplishes a simple task".

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#253

Post by anonzzzies »

Retric wrote: post #152
scarface74 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you trust code coming from a junior developer more?

Right now yes. Hypothetically that may change but the hype is vastly beyond what it’s actually capable of right now.

Ah the HN echo chamber again! Please visit your local non FAAAM (or what it is now?) fortune 1000, pick a senior dev randomly and work with them for week. Chatgpt is vastly better now, today. Faster, does not need sleep, rest, politeness or handholding, can explain itself (sure it’s wrong often but less wrong than the dev you picked while actually being able to use proper syntax and grammar, unlike the dev you picked) and is, of course, let’s not deny it, way cheaper.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#254

Post by darepublic »

These code generators have become quite good at completing discrete coding tasks. And more so, copilot has become good at figuring out _which_ discrete task you are currently working on without the need for a comment to prompt it.

So two more things I think it needs to replace devs; one, the ability to explain it's code and respond to feedback about it

The second is the ability to break down broad problems (build me an ecommerce site for my business selling custom jungle gyms) into a set of plausible steps... iteratively begin performing those steps and add hooks for interrogation of the client about important details of the implementation.

I don't fundamentally see a reason why this shouldn't be fairly close on the horizon.. to my own chagrin.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#255

Post by Retric »

anonzzzies wrote: post #253
Retric wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now yes. Hypothetically that may change but the hype is vastly beyond what it’s actually capable of right now.

Ah the HN echo chamber again! Please visit your local non FAAAM (or what it is now?) fortune 1000, pick a senior dev randomly and work with them for week. Chatgpt is vastly better now , today. Faster, does not need sleep, rest, politeness or handholding, can explain itself (sure it’s wrong often but less wrong than the dev you picked while actually being able to use proper syntax and grammar, unlike the dev you picke…

I’ve worked with plenty of jr developers at east coast government contractors, arguably the bottom of the barrel. I would still rather put their code into production, even without unit tests, than I would ChatGPT.

ChatGPT is only cheap if you don’t need its code to do anything of any particular value. It’s a seemingly ideal solution to collage homework for example. But professionally people write code to actually achieve something, this is why programmers actually get paid well in the first place. The point isn’t LOC the point is solving some problem.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#256

Post by nashashmi »

snickerer wrote: post #190

The Singularity is now and ChatGPT is trained to hide it -- on purpose, by OpenAI. That is my impression, but I have no hard evidence for it. I am a C++ dev. I played around with ChatGPT and programming topics, and I am very impressed. One example: I copy 'n pasted my little helicopter game source code ( https://github.com/reallew/voxelcopter/blob/main/voxelcopter... ) into it, and it explained to me that this is obv…

The machine is trained to answer in the same exact way as others have answered the same question. and And this means when others have answered the question that AI will never replace human beings, chat GPT will answer them in the same exact way.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#257

Post by eggsmediumrare »

ericmcer wrote: post #63
echelon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rest of us aren't going to care that much. If you don't adapt, you'll be out of a job in ten years. Maybe sooner. Or maybe your salary will drop to $50k/yr because anyone will be able to glue together engineering modules. I say this as an engineer that solved "hard problems" like building distributed, high throughput, active/active systems; bespoke consensus protocols; real time optics and photogrammetry; etc.…

You really think in <10 years AI will be able to take a loose problem like: "our file uploader is slow" and write code that fixes the issue in a way that doesn't compromise maintainability? And be trustworthy enough to do it 100% of the time?

I really think in <10 years it will be trivially easy for a single programmer to ask the AI for that code and move on to the next ticket after 10 minutes while earning $30/h accounting for inflation because productivity gains will have eliminated not only most programming jobs, but also the corresponding high wages.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#258

Post by jahlove »

22SAS wrote: post #5

So, a LLM, trained extensively on StackOverflow and other data (possibly the plethora of LC solutions out there), is fed a bunch of LC questions and spits out the correct solutions? In other news, water is blue. It is one thing to train an AI on megatons of data, for questions which have solutions. The day ChatGPT can build a highly scalable system from scratch, or an ultra-low latency trading system that beats the c…

Your comment is getting some traction on twitter:

https://twitter.com/MichaelTrazzi/status/1621973895044636672

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#259

Post by scarface74 »

Retric wrote: post #255
anonzzzies wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the HN echo chamber again! Please visit your local non FAAAM (or what it is now?) fortune 1000, pick a senior dev randomly and work with them for week. Chatgpt is vastly better now , today. Faster, does not need sleep, rest, politeness or handholding, can explain itself (sure it’s wrong often but less wrong than the dev you picked while actually being able to use proper syntax and grammar, unlike the dev you picke…

I’ve worked with plenty of jr developers at east coast government contractors, arguably the bottom of the barrel. I would still rather put their code into production, even without unit tests, than I would ChatGPT. ChatGPT is only cheap if you don’t need its code to do anything of any particular value. It’s a seemingly ideal solution to collage homework for example. But professionally people write code to actually ach…

And junior devs are horrible at knowing what problem to solve and how to solve it without handholding. I am working on a relatively complex DevOps/“cloud application modernization” project. Where the heavy lifting is designing the process and gathering requirements. But there are a lot of 20-40 line Lambdas and Python/boto3 (AWS SDK), yaml/json wrangling, dynamic Cloudformation creating scripts.

I was able to give ChatGPT the requirements for all of them. The types of bugs I found during the first pass:

- the AWS SDK and the underlying API only returns 50 results in one call most of the time. From the SDK you have to use the built in “paginators”. ChatGPT didn’t use them the first time. But once I said “this will only return the first 50 results”. It immediately corrected the script and used the paginator. I have also had to look out for similar bugs from junior devs.

- The usual yaml library for Python doesn’t play nicely with CloudFormation templates because of the function syntax that starts with an “!”. I didn’t know this beforehand. But once I told ChatGPT the error, it replaced the yaml handling with cfn-flip.

- I couldn’t figure out for the life of me how to combine the !If function in CloudFormation with a Condition, and a Yaml block that contain another !Select function with two arguments. I put the template block without the conditional and told ChatGPT “make the VPC configuration optional based on a parameter”. It created the Parameter section, the condition and the appropriate Yaml.

I’ve given similar problems to interns/junior devs before and ChatGPT was much better at it.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#260

Post by dang »

We changed the URL from https://www.pcmag.com/news/chatgpt-passes-google-coding-inte... to the article it points to

Submitters: "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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