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U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

cnbc.com

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#181

Post by pxc »

LarryMullins wrote: post #166
Dalewyn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that using China as our 21st century boogieman is very tiresome, the fact of the matter is China is not a friend of the west.

You're wasting your time trying to explain this to somebody who uses the derogatory "USian" to describe his supposed fellow countrymen.

What? It's not derogatory. It's just shorter and in some ways better specified than 'American'. I also used the word 'American' in the same post! Just didn't feel like writing the whole thing out the second time. -_-

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#182

Post by WillPostForFood »

scotty79 wrote: post #159
Dalewyn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that using China as our 21st century boogieman is very tiresome, the fact of the matter is China is not a friend of the west.

So? The west is not a friend of China as well. And US has downright militant rethoric agains China.

The US and Europe brought China into the WTO, gave it most favored nations trading status, transferred trillions in technology, and financed the modernization of the country. Pretty good friends, IMO. But it is not been reciprocated, and is now going bad. The crushing of the democracy movement in Hong Kong was a wake up call as to the intentions of China going forward.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#183

Post by sebzim4500 »

dctoedt wrote: post #118

The video of the shoot-down shows flashes from the detached-and-falling payload, probably explosive self-destruct devices detonating. (It'd be shocking if the Chinese didn't include a self-destruct capability.)

You'll probably still get some information from the wreckage even if a self destruct activated.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#184

Post by qqtt »

yohanshi wrote: post #158
pxc wrote: post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

As a taiwanese who lurks on hacker news for many years but when I saw this post I had to make an account. You are dead wrong, China is an enemy of the free world, pure and simple. South Koreans and Ukrainians would agree with me here. Especially since China has declared no limit friendship with russia

The world should also be very concerned about the current leader in China, who is currently re-writing the democratic traditions of China to remain in power indefinitely, which echoes the moves certain other leaders have made. This is, time and time again, a precursor to using military adventurism to justify and consolidate their grip on power.

If anything, people aren't worried enough. Being overly sensitive about a egregious spy balloon is not the problem that should be called out right now.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#185

Post by LarryMullins »

blamazon wrote: post #128
FpUser wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The US state apparatus did not make a big deal of this." Cancelling / postponing (whatever it will be) Blinken's visit to China does seem like a big deal.

Via NPR transcript of a segment today: [1] > SIMON: This trip was supposed to happen this weekend, right? > KELEMEN: Yeah. I mean, we were planning to fly out last night. We had our visas in hand and our bags sort of packed. So this was very last minute. Though Blinken had been raising concerns with the Chinese about this balloon since Wednesday, when pictures started appearing on social media of this thing way far u…

That's the way it seems to me as well. The earlier excuse about not shooting it down over Montana because of falling debris didn't make a ton of sense. I think they didn't want to shoot it down because the threat was long ago characterized and the standard operating procedure is to ignore these balloons. But once the public started making a big deal about it, politicians respond to that.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#186

Post by Andrex »

chitowneats wrote: post #33
Kibae wrote: post #12

I wonder what the cost to take down the balloon was for the US (including monitoring it) vs. the cost of the balloon for China. If the ratio is something greater than 10:1, then I would say China got a pretty good ROI on a small investment.

I really do wonder if this is them testing that they can reliably and cheaply get high-altitude balloons to the U.S. mainland. In the event of a military conflict, I can imagine them swarming us with these. They must cost far, far less than the average American military aircraft. If our air power becomes partly tied up defending Taiwan, dropping bombs from craft like these might be an effective strategy to demoralize…

> This week, with attention on the suspected Chinese spy balloon over the United States, the U.S. Naval Institute posted on Facebook, “When the USS New York was sailing towards Iwo Jima in 1945, the crew spotted a silver sphere flying high overhead that seemed to follow the battleship for hours. Concerned that the shiny orb might be a Japanese balloon weapon, the captain ordered it shot down. After the guns failed to score a hit, a navigator realised that they were attacking Venus.”

That's mildly adorable.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#187

Post by zeroonetwothree »

sabujp wrote: post #146

Spy balloon cost : $3k - $50k , you can even buy them on alibaba and some other sites: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-hot-sale-surveillance-balloon-with_60454941082.html https://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/jennerjiang/product-list/catalog-1.html?view=0 Cost to shoot down balloon with F22 $400k for the AIM-9X, ~$85k for 1 hour of flight time, so ~$400 - $500k to shoot down one balloon that cost < $50k

Presumably if this becomes common we can think of cheaper ways to do it.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#188

Post by retrac »

pxc wrote: post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

Assuming this is all due to America is, with apologies, typical American jingoism, that assumes the world revolves around Washington. Read some material from the Chinese side. The CPC sees itself in a life and death struggle with liberal capitalism as (allegedly) championed by the EU and USA. One or the other will triumph. The two orders are fundamentally incompatible. A new cold war is here, whether the Americans want it or not.

> Why did the Soviet Union disintegrate? Why did the Communist Party of the Soviet Union fall to pieces? An important reason is that in the ideological domain, competition is fierce! To completely repudiate the historical experience of the Soviet Union, to repudiate the history of the CPSU, to repudiate Lenin, to repudiate Stalin was to wreck chaos in Soviet ideology and engage in historical nihilism. It caused Party organizations at all levels to have barely any function whatsoever. It robbed the Party of its leadership of the military. In the end the CPSU—as great a Party as it was—scattered like a flock of frightened beasts! The Soviet Union—as great a country as it was—shattered into a dozen pieces. This is a lesson from the past!

This excerpt is from a speech by Xi Jinping given at his inauguration as General Secretary in 2013. What would you say it implies about how he sees the USA?

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#189

Post by sebzim4500 »

chitowneats wrote: post #135
tshaddox wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has ICBMs with nuclear warheads. No one is confused about whether China has the ability to harm Americans on American soil.

No one is confused about the result of the use of nuclear weapons. Has Russia used them yet in their almost year-long war against Ukraine? Has the U.S.? Update your assumptions. All major powers are exploring how they might wage war short of nukes.

>All major powers are exploring how they might wage war short of nukes.

Certainly not with balloons.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#190

Post by sandworm101 »

pxc wrote: post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

It is only boogieman talk, until that boogieman is real. Sending balloons i to the airspace of other countries makes china's intention undeniable: they do not care for any rules-based international system. They believe simply that might makes right. They are a bully. The US just made its counterpoint very clear in the only manner that a bully understands. That balloon will no doubt be cut up and put on display, airing any secrets it might contain, to expose the lie that this was anything other than a surveillance device.
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