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U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

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Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#171
post #25

I had seen reports that the balloon was the length of 3-4 school busses but it appears that was misreported and just repeated. The PAYLOAD was the length of 3-4 school busses. I haven’t been following this much until today/ vaguely aware as an amusing background story. But, has anyone seen high res photos of the balloon or someone doing back of the envelope math on the size of the balloon portion? I ask simply becaus…

It looks like the large size is mostly just solar panels (I'm assuming that's what they were; they could have been 'sails' to help steer it) and their scaffolding. From some of the available photos there's two wings, each with eight panels.

There's a tradeoff between the weight of the solar panels vs simply using batteries (though batteries don't like the cold, and solar panels do), so I think maybe they were hoping the thing would stay aloft for a long time?

My guess is that the actual package of equipment - batteries and sensors - is quite small. Maybe a telescope and gyro stabilizer or gimbal was part of the setup. Insulation probably bulked it up quite a bit; it's very, very cold at that altitude.

I'd be curious what sort of uplink they were using, assuming the thing was actually fully functional as a spying device. I'd say there is a decent chance it was largely a dummy, designed to see what our reaction would be.

I don't particularly like the precedent we just set. There's no evidence it was a weapon, its flight path was easily tracked and slow so our military could hardly argue it was a surveillance threat especially compared to satellites, it's well outside commercial aviation flight ranges.

If they want to send balloons over us at 80,000 feet...let them? Who cares? They can task commercial satellites and get as good or better imagery.

We can hardly point fingers. The U2 flew at similar altitudes, we still use them to this day, and they almost certainly contain far more powerful spying equipment.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#172

The video of the shoot-down shows flashes from the detached-and-falling payload, probably explosive self-destruct devices detonating. (It'd be shocking if the Chinese didn't include a self-destruct capability.)

Isn't it a hydrogen balloon? Wouldn't some level of explosion be expected?

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#173
post #146

Spy balloon cost : $3k - $50k , you can even buy them on alibaba and some other sites: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-hot-sale-surveillance-balloon-with_60454941082.html https://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/jennerjiang/product-list/catalog-1.html?view=0 Cost to shoot down balloon with F22 $400k for the AIM-9X, ~$85k for 1 hour of flight time, so ~$400 - $500k to shoot down one balloon that cost < $50k

What is the value of

1. The intelligence collected by China 2. Learning more about Chinese intelligence collection methods

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#174
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where your info is from, but this balloon was seen by the naked eye and all over social media. As someone who lives in Montana, many many people could see it. The idea that the USG prompted the publicity is unlikely to be accurate (would suggest a calculated social media psyop). Not impossible, but not likely.

there’s a bit of difference between it being spread as a meme online and then quietly fading into the background v.s. the President of the country ordering it to be shot down by a jet and then announcing said order to the public. just how close/far is this from “business as usual”? if this balloon were no big deal, i wouldn’t expect it to be escalated to the Commander in Chief. which tells me either (a) there’s (susp…

(d) The government usually ignores it, but the public caught onto this one and started calling Biden weak on China for ignoring it.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#175
post #146

Spy balloon cost : $3k - $50k , you can even buy them on alibaba and some other sites: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-hot-sale-surveillance-balloon-with_60454941082.html https://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/jennerjiang/product-list/catalog-1.html?view=0 Cost to shoot down balloon with F22 $400k for the AIM-9X, ~$85k for 1 hour of flight time, so ~$400 - $500k to shoot down one balloon that cost < $50k

The balloon that was shot down was visible to the naked eye at 60k feet. It would have had to be far larger than the products you have linked to.

they expand

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/32... > An F-22 Raptor fighter from the 1st Fighter Wing at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia, fired one AIM-9X Sidewinder missile at the balloon.

So it probably cost >$1M to shoot it down? How much did that balloon cost to make?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34660282

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#177
post #47

In previous times, the US would ignore these balloons and quietly take them down. Instead they made a big deal out of it and milked it. Brilliant and opposite of what china expected

The US state apparatus did not make a big deal of this. The media and the public did, and the US state apparatus answered to the media and the public, as is their duty.

I'm not saying it happened here, but the US media has a very, very long history of being happy to take a ball from the white house, military, or cabinet - and run with it.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#178
post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#179
post #112

>"... size of three school busses..." Size of school bus in the US range anywhere from 20 to 45 feet. I surprised they did not measure it in anacondas.

Converting school buses to feet doesn't do much good for nearly everybody on this planet. Use metric.

Re: U.S. military shoots down suspected Chinese surveillance balloon

#180
post #102

I am so tired of China being used to stoke American jingoism, of politicians making a contest of who is really 'tough on China' and, most horrifyingly, of seeing other USians online practically salivate as they fantasize about a war with China. It's some cold war boogieman horseshit. And it's depressing to watch here on Hacker News, too, any comments that question the beating of those war drums go dead. Yesterday I h…

As a taiwanese who lurks on hacker news for many years but when I saw this post I had to make an account. You are dead wrong, China is an enemy of the free world, pure and simple. South Koreans and Ukrainians would agree with me here. Especially since China has declared no limit friendship with russia

From your point of view, I can see how China is bad and the USA is good. But ask someone whose country got invaded by the USA or whose bloody dictator got supported by the USA. Over here in Latinamerica we still remember the horrible things that the USA did. It seems to me (but I could have a false perception) that China is a horrible bully in their corner of the world (nine dash line and, of course their will to invade Taiwan), but their foreign policy is order of magnitude less intrusive (i.e. they don't invade or topple countries on the other side of the world).
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