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De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

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Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#161

Post by nateb2022 »

worble wrote: post #149

It really staggers me the lengths some people will go to try and preserve something that is actively against them, when there are alternatives right there. I'm not saying Linux is for everyone, but the kind of people creating and running these scripts really should have no issue daily driving Ubuntu or even Arch. Or if they desperately need photoshop or whatever, get a mac. It's like watching people constantly go bac…

Agreed. My initial response to any post beginning something like "On Windows XP..." "On Windows 7..." "On Debian..." would be like: "Well you already have Windows XP/7/Debian/whatever. If you want to use that, use that. Nobody is forcing you to use Windows 11."

For the people who do want to use Windows 11, and who see it for what it is, it's pretty great. For the people who use Windows XP/7 or who stick to some minimalistic un-featured XFCE-running underpowered Linux machine, you do your own thing. No need to force that on everyone else.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#162

Post by TacticalCoder »

abraxas wrote: post #6

Let’s pause for a bit and dwell on the absurd amount of RAM it takes to run it even after this exercise. Anyone here remember when QNX shipped a demo in 2000 with a kernel, GUI, web browser and an email client on a single 3.5” floppy? The memory footprint was also a few megabytes. I’m not saying we should be staying within some miserly arbitrary constraints, but my goodness something that draws UI and manages process…

> Let’s pause for a bit and dwell on the absurd amount of RAM it takes to run it even after this exercise.

I agree and I find the apologists to be completely wrong. I run a modern system: 38" screen, 2 Gbit/s fiber to the home. I'm not "stuck in the past" with a 17" screen or something.

The thing flies. It's screaming fast as it should be.

But I run a lean Debian Linux system, with a minimal window manager. It's definitely less bloated than Ubuntu and compared to Windows, well: there's no comparison possible.

Every single keystroke has an effect instantly. After reading the article about keyboard latency, I found out my keyboard was one of the lower latency one (HHKB) and yet I finetuned the Linux kernel for USB 2.0 polling of keyboard inputs to be even faster. ATM I cannot run a real-time kernel because NVidia refuses to modify a non-stock kernel (well that's what the driver says at least) but even without that: everything feels and actually is insanely fast.

I've got a dozen virtual workspace / virtual desktops and there are shortcuts assigned to each of them. I can fill every virtual virtual desktop with apps and windows and then switch like a madman on my keyboard between each of them: the system doesn't break a sweat.

I can display all the pictures on my NVME SSD in full screen and leave my finger on the arrow key and they'll move so quickly I can't follow.

Computers became very fast and monitor size / file sizes for a regular usage simply didn't grow anywhere near close as quickly as CPU performances.

Windows is a pig.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#163

Post by haunter »

at_a_remove wrote: post #158
haunter wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As pretty much with a lot of things nowadays Archive.org is your friend https://archive.org/details/en-us_windows_10_iot_enterprise_...

Thank you! I'm also a little shocked, I had no idea Archive.org was doing this. I'm starting to get the impression that there's quite a lot going on under the hood at archive.org, just reams of stuff I've never noticed ...

>I had no idea Archive.org was doing this

Well it's the users that are uploading but yeah Archive.org has an insane amount of stuff

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#164

Post by blacklion »

inglor_cz wrote: post #64
grishka wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HDR, fluid animations, monstrous resolutions That's the job of the GPU driver, mostly. > 3D everything That's the desktop compositor. Windows 7 already had one and ran on 1 GB of RAM. > accessibility Not everyone needs it, so it should be an optional installable component for those who do. > fancy APIs for easier development allowing for more features That still use win32 under the hood. Again, .net has existed for…

"No one asked for this. My personal opinion" You didn't ask. It is, as you say, your personal opinion. From my POV, current Web is fine and the fact that browsers are powerful liberated us from writing specialized desktop apps for various OSes. I am much happier writing a Web UI than hacking together Win32 or Qt-based apps. Or, God forbid, AVKON Symbian OS UI. That was its own circle of hell.

It liberated you as developer. As developer, I could understand. As user I hate you. You never provide me as user with native experience via web UI. You use custom controls, which broke conventions of native controls a little bit there and here. You can not use full power of OS (YouTube or Spotify player doesn't pause itself when workstation is locked, my native player of choice does). You eat my resources. You cannot make your application consistent with application from other vendor, so I need to remember different pattern for different apps. Your typical browser app doesn't have ANY features for power users, like shortcuts for all commands and useful keyboard controls (not to mention full customization of these controls, toolbars, etc). Damn you and your laziness!

But I understand, that most of my complains are complains of power user with 25+ years of experience and muscle memory, and I'm not target auditory for almost any new app. You win :-(

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#165

Post by jodrellblank »

abraxas wrote: post #6

Let’s pause for a bit and dwell on the absurd amount of RAM it takes to run it even after this exercise. Anyone here remember when QNX shipped a demo in 2000 with a kernel, GUI, web browser and an email client on a single 3.5” floppy? The memory footprint was also a few megabytes. I’m not saying we should be staying within some miserly arbitrary constraints, but my goodness something that draws UI and manages process…

Eight Gigs And Constantly Swapping.

Zawinski’s Law - every program on windows attempts to expand until it can be your default PDF viewer. [cloud file sync, advertising display board, telemetry hoover, App Store…]

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#166

Post by janosdebugs »

Rant: Windows, sadly, seems to be moving more and more into the direction of the user being the product not the customer: you get spied upon, you get ads, you are subjected to changes to the deal without you ability to object. The only exception seem to be the enteprise versions. Darn it, we are paying for the bloody thing!

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#167

Post by michaelmrose »

jeroenhd wrote: post #78
mixedCase wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't it, though? HDR, fluid animations, monstrous resolutions, 3D everything, accessibility, fancy APIs for easier development allowing for more features, support for large amounts of devices, backwards compatibility, browsers are almost unrecognizable in featureset to the point they resemble an OS unto themselves, email clients have stayed mostly the same at least except for the part that they also ship a browser…

Resolutions and HDR are one area where I think the extra RAM load and increasing application sizes make complete sense. However, my monitors run at 1080p, don't do HDR, and my video files are rncoded at a standard colour depth. Despite all this, the standalone RAM usage has increased over the years. Accessibility has actually gone down with the switch to web applications. Microsoft had an excellent accessibility fram…

SSD access times are as much as 100,000 ns memory 50 ms SSD do not negate the virtue of cache.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#168

Post by [deleted] »

haunter wrote: post #83
wkat4242 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTSC is no longer debloated. The latest version comes with the same crapware, Windows app store, "recommended" Microsoft account, telemetry that can't be turned off etc. It's just a stable version frozen in time but heralding it as the bloat-free alternative is no longer true. I have access to it through work and I gave it a spin recently but it's no longer what it used to be.

>LTSC is no longer debloated. The latest version Which one? Or I guess it's not a public release? I have installed IoT 2021 (Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 Version 21H2) like 3 weeks ago there was nothing, no App Store, less telemetry (there is some but significantly less than on the "normal" Windows versions, but I reinstalled the App Store so maybe because of that) *Edited the wording It looks like this as a f…

[deleted]

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#169

Post by shortcake27 »

72deluxe wrote: post #110
college_physics wrote: post #106

There really should be a penalty for gratuitous waste of resources. Energy consumption is neither free nor without adverse impacts. The era of planed obsolescence, bloatware expanding to gobble up and justify ever more hardware is over. A fresh take on the desktop given the monstrous devices that are now available in terms of cpu, memory etc may completely redefine the footprint of personal computing

Try telling that to the users of Slack and other modern "desktop" applications that are simply web browsers with poorly-implemented UI elements attempting to mimic native UI elements (like menus). I wish your idea took off, but the modern "developer" (even with insane amounts of funding) seems capable of only writing memory-hogging garbage.

> the modern “developer” seems capable of only writing memory-hogging garbage.

They’re perfectly capable of writing good software but actively choose not to. 1Password is the perfect example - lots of money, good engineers, a team who proved actually did write beautifully implemented native applications. Then they switched to Electron so they could avoid double-handling, and now users are faced with a laggy, buggy, janky, resource-intensive application.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#170

Post by hedora »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #146
hedora wrote: post #140

I had a similar experience with GrapheneOS on my pixel 6 pro. It got multi-day battery life out of the box, which is far in excess of what Google advertises for that hardware. Once I installed google play services (which have zero end-user benefit, other than enabling compatibility with apps that have bundled google spyware), battery life more than halved, bringing it in line with what Google claims. I suspect anti-t…

Maybe you are Ok with paying for every app or making do with open sources ones that do not benefit from ad revenue stream. Plus, you don't need maps, pay or cast support. But many other people like this features and if they don't, isn't it great that there are working AOSP builds for Pixel 6 Pro so that they can roll their own ROMs on top of that? No need to hack like for Windows 11.

Why would maps (get lat/long from GPS chip when navigating / searching), cast and pay need to burn battery when the phone is idle?

(Also, third party implementations of maps, such as organic maps and here we go can install and run fine without impacting battery life when they are not running.)

The answer is that the actually-useful features are bundled with mandatory malware that does need to run in the background in order to implement 24/7 surveillance. That bundling clearly violates US antitrust law.

Also, I suspect most people buying > $1000 phones would be willing to pay 10’s of dollars for lifetime licenses for maps, pay and cast (which is roughly what they would cost as standalone products), especially if they were privacy preserving, and doubled the phone’s battery life.

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