Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#91

Post by jokethrowaway » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:35 PM UTC

phoehne wrote: post #68

tbalsam wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it helps, this likely is coming. I think we have a tendency to mentally move the goalposts when it comes to this kind of thing as a self-defense mechanism. Years ago this would have been a similar level of impossibility. Since all a codebase like that is is a kind of directed graph, then augmentations to the processing of the network to allow for the simultaneous parsing of and generation of this kind of code may…

I think you’re right in one sense, and we both agree LLMs are not sufficient. I think they are definitely the death knell for the junior python developer that slaps together common APIs by googling the answers. The same way good, optimizing C, C++, … compilers destroyed the need for wide-spread knowledge of assembly programming. 100% agreed on that. Those are the most precarious jobs in the industry. Many of those pe…

I don't think chatgpt lacks an explanation. It can explain what it's doing. It's just that it can be completely wrong or the explanation may be correct and the code wrong.

I gave some code to ChatGPT asking to simplify it and it returned the correct code but off by one. It was something dealing with dates, so it was trivial to write a loop checking for each day if the new code matched in functionality the old one.

You will never have certainty the code makes any sense if it's coming from one of these high tech parrots. With a human you can at least be sure the intention was there.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#92

Post by Nursie » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:35 PM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #77

morelisp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think the jury is still out on whether ChatGPT is truly useful or not, passing an L3 hiring test is not evidence of that one way or another.

If it doesn't point out that ChatGPT is useful, especially if its proven it is not, then maybe the hiring tests are not useful.

We have a winner …

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#93

Post by pixl97 » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:35 PM UTC

tukantje wrote: post #40

ALittleLight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a huge demonstration of progress. Shrugging it off as "water is blue" ignores the fact that a year ago this wouldn't have been possible. At one end of the "programmer" scale is hacking basic programs together by copying off of stack overflow and similar - call that 0. At the other end is the senior/principal software architect - designing scalable systems to address business needs, documenting the com…

We don’t get junior engineers for solving problems we tend to get them because they grow into other roles.

Ah, yes, that's why when we read programmer forums every engineer says something like "If you want a promotion and more pay move to another company".

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#94

Post by LudwigNagasena » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:36 PM UTC

tbalsam wrote: post #16

22SAS wrote: post #5

So, a LLM, trained extensively on StackOverflow and other data (possibly the plethora of LC solutions out there), is fed a bunch of LC questions and spits out the correct solutions? In other news, water is blue. It is one thing to train an AI on megatons of data, for questions which have solutions. The day ChatGPT can build a highly scalable system from scratch, or an ultra-low latency trading system that beats the c…

If it helps, this likely is coming. I think we have a tendency to mentally move the goalposts when it comes to this kind of thing as a self-defense mechanism. Years ago this would have been a similar level of impossibility. Since all a codebase like that is is a kind of directed graph, then augmentations to the processing of the network to allow for the simultaneous parsing of and generation of this kind of code may…

> I think we have a tendency to mentally move the goalposts when it comes to this kind of thing as a self-defense mechanism. Years ago this would have been a similar level of impossibility.

Define "we". There are all kinds of people with all kinds of opinions. I didn't notice any consensus on the questions of AI. There are people with all kinds of educations and backgrounds on the opposite sides and in-between.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#95

Post by cevn » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:36 PM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #77

morelisp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think the jury is still out on whether ChatGPT is truly useful or not, passing an L3 hiring test is not evidence of that one way or another.

If it doesn't point out that ChatGPT is useful, especially if its proven it is not, then maybe the hiring tests are not useful.

That's exactly what it proves..

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#96

Post by sorry_outta_gas » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:37 PM UTC

tukantje wrote: post #40

ALittleLight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a huge demonstration of progress. Shrugging it off as "water is blue" ignores the fact that a year ago this wouldn't have been possible. At one end of the "programmer" scale is hacking basic programs together by copying off of stack overflow and similar - call that 0. At the other end is the senior/principal software architect - designing scalable systems to address business needs, documenting the com…

We don’t get junior engineers for solving problems we tend to get them because they grow into other roles.

really? I just hire them to do the grunt work and tedious shit

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#97

Post by pixl97 » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:37 PM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #62

I think tests should be easy for ChatGPT to pass. It has been trained on data that has the answers and it's good at getting the data. I'm starting to doubt its long term usefulness since it does not seem to have good decision making abilities and even the slightest bit of cognitive ability. I suspect the current crop of AIs will find very specific functions and hit a hard stop. They will change how we function but we…

Why are you making these assumptions? Do you believe that human intelligence is based on something ethereal that cannot be recreated by machines, and if so, why?

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#98

Post by mensetmanusman » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

SpeedilyDamage wrote: post #66

hacym wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think your militant attitude helps them understand any better.

I don't think I had a militant attitude, but I do think saying, "I don't understand..." rather than "I disagree with..." puts a sour note on the entire conversation.

I was just responding to the ‘water is blue’ level dismissal of a seemingly clear advancement. Sorry it seemed like a sour note— not my intent:)

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#99

Post by otreblatercero » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

spaceheater wrote: post #21

So can ChatGPT and a QA team that feeds it the bugs it found, replace the development team?

If such scenario was feasible, the QA team would be replaced by developers and QA engineers would be the ones without a job.

Re: Google testing ChatGPT-like chatbot 'Apprentice Bard' with employees

#100

Post by somsak2 » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

nzoschke wrote: post #73

22SAS wrote: post #5

So, a LLM, trained extensively on StackOverflow and other data (possibly the plethora of LC solutions out there), is fed a bunch of LC questions and spits out the correct solutions? In other news, water is blue. It is one thing to train an AI on megatons of data, for questions which have solutions. The day ChatGPT can build a highly scalable system from scratch, or an ultra-low latency trading system that beats the c…

Agree LeetCode is one of the least surprising starting points. Any human that reads the LeetCode books and practices and remembers the fundamentals will pass a LeetCode test. But there is also a ton of code out there for highly scalable client/servers, low latency processing, performance optimizations and bug fixing. Certainly GPT it is being trained on this too. “Find a kernel bug from first principles” maybe not, b…

> Any human that reads the LeetCode books and practices and remembers the fundamentals will pass a LeetCode test.

Seems pretty bold to claim "any human" to me. If it were that easy, don't you think alot more people would be able to break into software dev at FAANG and hence drive salaries down?