Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013) • Hacker News Board

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#11

Post by polishdude20 » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

DefineOutside wrote: post #8

> So since 2000 schools have been teaching students Microsoft skills (Adobe skills were introduced a little later). My most recent required computer class was indeed learning how to use Microsoft Office in high school in 2016. That's it, all the computer education that students required. Even in middle school we were learning how to use office software. Insane that schools STILL just teach office software and not com…

I had a class in post secondary school. It was mainly to teach excel and word, some PowerPoint. At the end, we spent maybe a month doing visual basic. Embarrassing .

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#12

Post by ericmcer » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 5:47 PM UTC

Companies have optimized products for convenience very heavily. Anytime a minor amount of friction is encountered people throw their hands up in exasperation.

It is less that they aren't 'tech-savvy' and more that they are unwilling to dig into uncomfortable problems. There is a certain itchy feeling my brain gets when it is in totally foreign waters, it needs time to adjust to a new problem space. I think most people just bail or pick up their phones when they get that feeling.

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#13

Post by phrz » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 5:48 PM UTC

water-your-self wrote: post #9

TLDR section puts a bad taste of the authors ego in my mouth. Would be better to simply have not included it to begin with.

It does really set the tone as "old man yells at cloud" rather than one of valid concern.

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#14

Post by bsmitty5000 » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 5:54 PM UTC

hyperhello wrote: post #6

Do you value kids’ time less than yours? You get paid to understand these pointless bits of complexity that have been deliberately added to keep your job safe! The kids have perceived right away that the value of a computer is in saving time, not sitting down and role playing a scientist.

Yes this was my thought when he implied not knowing the proxy settings, or even that you must connect to a proxy, to get internet was a sign that someone “doesn’t know computers”.

It’s like a mechanic making a blog post complaining that people don’t know how cars work because they can’t change their oil or brake pads and somehow that’s a bad thing.

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#15

Post by legobridge » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 6:20 PM UTC

Wow it took a lot of effort to get through this one. The entire interaction with the other teacher was incredibly cringeworthily reported. I can't imagine anyone writing in this tone in 2023 and expecting a positive reaction from readers.

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#16

Post by mxkopy » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 6:21 PM UTC

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #4

Forge36 wrote: post #2

I have coworkers who program and can't troubleshoot. Too often I see people "do it for them" (I'm also guilty of this on occasion). My work offers training for most things. Surprisingly how to investigate or communicate issues isn't trained. Does everyone need to do everything, or can we recognize others have talents we don't? I suspect the larger exercise is "learning to learn"

What's really amazing is that most people can't do biology. I mean, we're literally made of biology , and yet most people have to go to (or at least see youtube videos by) specialists called physical therapists, physicians, and the like in order to fix things that break. Heck, right now I'm blindly taking some white pills, made by a chemical factory and sold OTC at a supermarket, for some back pain. I wouldn't have a…

> What's really amazing is that most people can't do biology.

I've been trying to put this in words for a long time. Some people will exclusively seek a doctor's opinion even if their own judgment will suffice. Researching the best antimicrobial sanitizers when hot water and soap was always known to be fine, for example.

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#17

Post by yumraj » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:14 PM UTC

bsmitty5000 wrote: post #14

hyperhello wrote: post #6

Do you value kids’ time less than yours? You get paid to understand these pointless bits of complexity that have been deliberately added to keep your job safe! The kids have perceived right away that the value of a computer is in saving time, not sitting down and role playing a scientist.

Yes this was my thought when he implied not knowing the proxy settings, or even that you must connect to a proxy, to get internet was a sign that someone “doesn’t know computers”. It’s like a mechanic making a blog post complaining that people don’t know how cars work because they can’t change their oil or brake pads and somehow that’s a bad thing.

Strongly Disagree.

The examples he’s given are more like a driver not knowing how to turn the wiper on, changing the speed of the wipers depending on the amount of rain and so on.

Changing oil or brake pad would be like upgrading RAM in a machine which has easy slots for upgrading RAM (such as in many Windows laptops).

Edit: I’ve had a neighbor tell me that he doesn’t know how to change wipers in a car. So that would be another example.

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#18

Post by objectivetruth » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

mxkopy wrote: post #16

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's really amazing is that most people can't do biology. I mean, we're literally made of biology , and yet most people have to go to (or at least see youtube videos by) specialists called physical therapists, physicians, and the like in order to fix things that break. Heck, right now I'm blindly taking some white pills, made by a chemical factory and sold OTC at a supermarket, for some back pain. I wouldn't have a…

> What's really amazing is that most people can't do biology. I've been trying to put this in words for a long time. Some people will exclusively seek a doctor's opinion even if their own judgment will suffice. Researching the best antimicrobial sanitizers when hot water and soap was always known to be fine, for example.

[dead]

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#19

Post by pseufaux » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 8:19 PM UTC

navjack27 wrote: post #7

Forge36 wrote: post #2

I have coworkers who program and can't troubleshoot. Too often I see people "do it for them" (I'm also guilty of this on occasion). My work offers training for most things. Surprisingly how to investigate or communicate issues isn't trained. Does everyone need to do everything, or can we recognize others have talents we don't? I suspect the larger exercise is "learning to learn"

It's incredibly hard to teach the skill of troubleshooting. You can teach a list of procedure to go through. But you can't teach this almost horse whisperer type ability that some people have when it comes to troubleshooting a computer. When I troubleshoot something I poke and prod some places that I think makes sense and if it's an unfamiliar computer to me I'll do some basic getting a lay of the land kind of inform…

This exactly. I used to manage an IT help desk, and I hired people based on two things. 1) can you think through a problem 2) can you talk to regular people. Everything else can be taught, but the type of thinking it takes to troubleshoot effectively and then communicate that to another is a insanely niche skill that is difficult to learn.

Re: Kids can't use computers and this is why it should worry you (2013)

#20

Post by navjack27 » Sat, Feb 04, 2023, 9:05 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #17

bsmitty5000 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this was my thought when he implied not knowing the proxy settings, or even that you must connect to a proxy, to get internet was a sign that someone “doesn’t know computers”. It’s like a mechanic making a blog post complaining that people don’t know how cars work because they can’t change their oil or brake pads and somehow that’s a bad thing.

Strongly Disagree. The examples he’s given are more like a driver not knowing how to turn the wiper on, changing the speed of the wipers depending on the amount of rain and so on. Changing oil or brake pad would be like upgrading RAM in a machine which has easy slots for upgrading RAM (such as in many Windows laptops). Edit: I’ve had a neighbor tell me that he doesn’t know how to change wipers in a car. So that would…

Exactly. There are simply people who throw up their hands and say "I don't know." To things. No want or drive to explore further. Maybe they think it's beneath them. Maybe it's embarrassing to them to admit they don't know in any way that makes them appear vulnerable (the example where the kid kept clicking away the dialogue box that simply said there wasn't Ethernet plugged in).

There will always be these people. So it's up to designers of systems to cater to them because they will always be the norm.

But!

As a extremely fluid thinker and great troubleshooter I'll gladly take a more "dumbed down" OS with things hidden away that I can still access as long as the designers are making the changes because it makes computing easier for the entry level user. They really shouldn't have to know most of the things I do. Things shouldn't be released in a state where I need to draw upon arcane knowledge from the early 2000s or even the DOS era. People have lives and computers for some of them aren't their entire life... But computers are mine and that's ok.