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De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

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Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#31
post #6

Let’s pause for a bit and dwell on the absurd amount of RAM it takes to run it even after this exercise. Anyone here remember when QNX shipped a demo in 2000 with a kernel, GUI, web browser and an email client on a single 3.5” floppy? The memory footprint was also a few megabytes. I’m not saying we should be staying within some miserly arbitrary constraints, but my goodness something that draws UI and manages process…

Hasn't it, though? HDR, fluid animations, monstrous resolutions, 3D everything, accessibility, fancy APIs for easier development allowing for more features, support for large amounts of devices, backwards compatibility, browsers are almost unrecognizable in featureset to the point they resemble an OS unto themselves, email clients have stayed mostly the same at least except for the part that they also ship a browser…

> HDR, fluid animations, monstrous resolutions

That's the job of the GPU driver, mostly.

> 3D everything

That's the desktop compositor. Windows 7 already had one and ran on 1 GB of RAM.

> accessibility

Not everyone needs it, so it should be an optional installable component for those who do.

> fancy APIs for easier development allowing for more features

That still use win32 under the hood. Again, .net has existed for a very long time. MFC has existed for an even longer time.

> support for large amounts of devices

No one asked for Windows on touchscreen anything. Microsoft decided that themselves and ruined the UX for the remaining 99% of the users that still use a mouse and a keyboard.

> backwards compatibility

That's what Microsoft does historically, nothing new here.

> browsers are almost unrecognizable in featureset to the point they resemble an OS unto themselves

No one asked for this. My personal opinion is that everything app-like about browsers needs to be undone, yesterday, and they should again become the hypertext document viewers they were meant to be. Even JS is too much, but I guess it does have to stay.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#32
post #10

How does this compare to a lightweight Linux distro like Lubuntu?

My daily driver Debian system idles at 400mb RAM usage. While writing this, it currently uses 1.2GB of RAM, with two browser windows, and about 40 tabs open.

My vastly less powerful Manjaro arm Laptop with the same setup idles at 160MB.

Most of the RAM seems to be used by systemd btw.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#33

This removes WinSxS. That's fine for embedded, since you'd just package the DLLs you need with any executables you want to run, but trying to run this as a general purpose OS is a fools' errand. Calling WinSxS "bloat" when that "bloat" is allowing 30+ years of backwards compatibility (and a lot of stuff will break) is creative by the article's author for sure. Nothing wrong with Tiny11 though, if you know what it is…

Um. Where else do you need it to run in 2GB but embedded? I think the article is informative, fair and correct.

"De-bloated" implies that the stuff removed is "bloat", i.e. worthless. I wouldn't assume that a "de-bloated" install was any less suitable for general purpose computing tasks.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#34
post #10

How does this compare to a lightweight Linux distro like Lubuntu?

Lubuntu is not really "lightweight" in my experience. A really light Linux install uses maybe 0.2 GB RAM at the desktop, which lets you do some very basic web browsing even on a 1 GB system.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#36
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't it, though? HDR, fluid animations, monstrous resolutions, 3D everything, accessibility, fancy APIs for easier development allowing for more features, support for large amounts of devices, backwards compatibility, browsers are almost unrecognizable in featureset to the point they resemble an OS unto themselves, email clients have stayed mostly the same at least except for the part that they also ship a browser…

> HDR, fluid animations, monstrous resolutions That's the job of the GPU driver, mostly. > 3D everything That's the desktop compositor. Windows 7 already had one and ran on 1 GB of RAM. > accessibility Not everyone needs it, so it should be an optional installable component for those who do. > fancy APIs for easier development allowing for more features That still use win32 under the hood. Again, .net has existed for…

> Not everyone needs [accessibility], so it should be an additional installable component for those who do.

The UI has to be designed from the ground up to support accessibility.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#37
I've had access to cheap Windows for years, which is why I kept it around as a secondary OS on my desktop to get around the hassle of getting games run on Linux. Games are mostly play/finish/forget for me anyway.

But since a few years back, most games I were interested in ran perfectly fine on Linux. I haven't rebooted into Windows for almost a year now. So I think I will, instead of upgrading to 11, eventually delete it and use the second SSD to hold my games on Linux and won't look back.

I remember the days I have been building a bare metal recovery for some of our Windows systems using WinPE, imagex and Python. There was this feeling of sane people pouring into M$ to modernize the OS a little bit and cool stuff came out. But in the end, it's still the same inscrutable mess it always were. Nowadays with more and more ads and unnecessary fluff that gets in the way.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#38
post #19

This removes WinSxS. That's fine for embedded, since you'd just package the DLLs you need with any executables you want to run, but trying to run this as a general purpose OS is a fools' errand. Calling WinSxS "bloat" when that "bloat" is allowing 30+ years of backwards compatibility (and a lot of stuff will break) is creative by the article's author for sure. Nothing wrong with Tiny11 though, if you know what it is…

how much backwards compatability do i neee nowadays? my laptop only needs to run a few things: browser vscode steam the microsoft drawing app some office stuff sublime discord which all update pretty regularly. the age of the desktop app has been replaced by the age of the browser and electron based apps. i can imagine businesses who built their own set ups back in the age of the desktop app being stuck with it, but…

A lot more than you think:

* Steam (the root process, not the subsequent Chromium child processes) is 32-bit, as are a lot of games.

* Discord is 32-bit.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#39
post #6

Let’s pause for a bit and dwell on the absurd amount of RAM it takes to run it even after this exercise. Anyone here remember when QNX shipped a demo in 2000 with a kernel, GUI, web browser and an email client on a single 3.5” floppy? The memory footprint was also a few megabytes. I’m not saying we should be staying within some miserly arbitrary constraints, but my goodness something that draws UI and manages process…

Hasn't it, though? HDR, fluid animations, monstrous resolutions, 3D everything, accessibility, fancy APIs for easier development allowing for more features, support for large amounts of devices, backwards compatibility, browsers are almost unrecognizable in featureset to the point they resemble an OS unto themselves, email clients have stayed mostly the same at least except for the part that they also ship a browser…

> fancy APIs for easier development allowing for more features

Windows didn't really see a lot of actual progress in this area since the Win2k days. Lots of activity and churn yes, but little actual progress.

Re: De-Bloated Windows 11 Build Runs on 2GB of RAM

#40
post #19

This removes WinSxS. That's fine for embedded, since you'd just package the DLLs you need with any executables you want to run, but trying to run this as a general purpose OS is a fools' errand. Calling WinSxS "bloat" when that "bloat" is allowing 30+ years of backwards compatibility (and a lot of stuff will break) is creative by the article's author for sure. Nothing wrong with Tiny11 though, if you know what it is…

how much backwards compatability do i neee nowadays? my laptop only needs to run a few things: browser vscode steam the microsoft drawing app some office stuff sublime discord which all update pretty regularly. the age of the desktop app has been replaced by the age of the browser and electron based apps. i can imagine businesses who built their own set ups back in the age of the desktop app being stuck with it, but…

They may update regularly but that doesn't mean they only use modern features. E.g. even just Steam itself (not just games in it) is largely still 32 bit on Windows requiring gigabytes of 32 bit compatibility files using interfaces going back decades even though Windows 11 itself doesn't have a 32 bit version anymore.
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