Earlier quoted context omitted.
You mean coffee breaks and job security are baked into the language?
If you call PTSD job security, sure
You know what they say: ya can't get PTSD twice!
The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
501–510 of 595 posts
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#502Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the incorrect way for either performance (anything newly added like std::variant or std::optional) or safety I don't know where you got that idea from, but with an up-to-date compiler variants are safer and more performant than the traditional approach (classes hierarchies), and std::optional is safer and 99.9% as performant as a nullable pointer.
> and std::optional is safer and 99.9% as performant as a nullable pointer. Except for it taking up twice the memory as a pointer ( https://godbolt.org/z/5We9zEbvh ) and it not doing anything in regards to safety when using pointers. Even if you're replacing a nullable-pointer with a std::optional you're still handling landmines when using operator* or operator-> - the most convenient ways to use std::optional.
The fact that modern C++ still added more easy to hit UB in std::optional blows my mind. "But making it safe would be slow!" and "-> being safe would be inconsistent with the rest of the language".
C++ is doomed forever to have safety-third design.
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#503Every time I try and get into C++ development I get hung up on build systems, compiler choices, and IDEs. For some reason I just can't build up enough steam (motivation, determination, whatever) to get past that initial hump, even though I know once I get rolling it will be fine like every other language. I've tried lazyfoo's tutorials several times and can never figure out how to get the SDL libraries working correc…
Avoid cmake. Install gcc or clang from your distro. Call the program called g++ or clang++ from the command line. That'll work out of the box.
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#504Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And those C++ automotive jobs in Germany? Sorry, I'm not even going to interview for 70k€ annually. I'd take that job in a heartbeat. Working on cars? Check. Nice European country? Check. Work-life balance? Double-check. What's not to like? Maybe it's because I'm looking for fresh graduate jobs, and 70000€ looks very attractive to me, even with a 35% tax.
> Nice European country? The grass is always greener on the other side. :) If you don’t like the idea of living in San Francisco or Chicago, you’ll hate it at most of the large European cities. Small towns are a different manner.
I'm not American. I think almost all European cities are a lot smaller and a lot less dense than Singapore is. And they have equivalent public transport, amenities, etc.
Make no mistakes, I don't have any illusions about cultural differences and am perfectly aware of grass-greener-on-other-side syndrome. I just don't want to be stuck in a 700 km^2 island all my life.
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#505There are plenty of talented C++ programmers. They just don't want to be abused by trading firms or work in that culture. Even paying them more won't work, because no amount of money is worth that abuse. I interviewed at a trading firm once, while I was working at Netflix (because Netflix encouraged us to interview for outside jobs at least once a year). The comp would have been double my Netflix salary. But I would…
Just to clarify, you used the word "abuse" several times to describe a job where you would have to work in office between 8:30 to 5 and pull (I'm safely assuming) half a million dollars a year?
> (...) you would have to work in office between 8:30 to 5 and (...)
It was my understanding that was the bare minimum, corresponding to times when workload was low.
Crunch time would naturally go way beyond that.
Not what I describe decent working conditions.
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#506Heh. I'm pretty proficient in modern C++, and it is my favorite tool for a lot of things, but my PHP job pays way more than any C++ position available. Did an interview once for Senior C++ Engineer, embedded software in the medical device space. All went good, until the offer: $100k. Articles like this are nothing more than a desperate attempt at getting younger generations to learn said topic, so companies can pay t…
Which makes no sense to me. Isn't C++ harder and demand better programming chops?
As someone who still uses it?
Not really. I've spent more time debugging JavaScript than debugging C++.
It used to be hard. Modern C++ is actually a quite pleasant language.
The issue is libraries. For example, one very basic functionality of any programming language is DB connection.
In particular, MySQL is very widely used. The C++ libraries (c++ connector) are older, less maintained and just plain broken in the last Ubuntu (it's Oracle's fault, and that can't be helped). They are more stable in Python, for example. The reason is trying to force SSL, reading the source code of the C++ connector it's clear it was intentional.
So, for many things that should have a well maintained library, there's actually not a good C++ one. Web servers are another example. There are only one or two libraries, very opinionated and with "proprietary" widgets, and that's it. Nothing comparable to Laravel or FastAPI.
In other words: the language is fine. C++ is a fine language with a fast runtime, and modern practices and implementations are pleasant to use. It's the disregarded ecosystem in C++ the one that needs improvements. Libraries, package management, build systems, etc. Even then, for performance, some things are only available in C++.
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
you're completely misreading it Re-read your original description again. Nowhere did you say you had to work 16h a day.
It is implied by not allowing to work from home. There wouldn't be a need to work from home if it was a 9-5 job.
For most of us, "work from home" means doing your regular work, during your regular hours, from your home office. No additional hours are implied.
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#508Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Writing new C++ code with all the modern approaches and tooling doesn't sound so bad. Uh, but it still kinda sucks, if only because the nice way that looks idiomatic is usually the incorrect way for either performance (anything newly added like std::variant or std::optional) or safety (operator[]). The correct way is usual the ugly way, because it seems like the committee puts C++ arcanum knowledge above all else,…
The "correct" way is also template-heavy so enjoy long compile times followed by utterly incomprehensible error messages.
I prefer C++ compile times than Node.js webpack copying plain text around 'transpile' times.
At least the C++ compiler is doing actual work. And it is faster than the webpack madness.
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#509Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not an issue of capacity, it is demand. C++ developers cannot write websites in C++, so big companies will have to pay somebody else.
Not posting to make a counterpoint but simply because related and interesting for the C++ folks around here. > Wt is a web GUI library in modern C++. Quickly develop highly interactive web UIs with widgets, without having to write a single line of JavaScript. Wt handles all request handling and page rendering for you, so you can focus on functionality. https://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt HN submission: https://news.ycombina…
Thanks, but just a reminder of why we don't use C++ for web applications: creating a web app is basically a string manipulation problem. The work in most cases is just getting data from a database and returning text that represents the HTML+CSS in the web page. Not only you don't need the C++ speed to do this process, but string manipulation is also the weak spot of C++, due to the need for manual memory management.
Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry
#510There are plenty of talented C++ programmers. They just don't want to be abused by trading firms or work in that culture. Even paying them more won't work, because no amount of money is worth that abuse. I interviewed at a trading firm once, while I was working at Netflix (because Netflix encouraged us to interview for outside jobs at least once a year). The comp would have been double my Netflix salary. But I would…
Also, making 1M in NYC is like making 500k in Redmond due to no city and state income taxes.