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The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

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Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#341

Post by tw1984 »

warmwaffles wrote: post #294
tw1984 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop mixing C and C++ together. Learn C gets you to know all the underlying mechanisms. Learning C++ gives you nothing else but some overmarked concepts like OO.

I'm not mixing them. Both are good to have foundations for why things are the way they are. Completely bypassing them is asinine. There's a reason in computer science a computer organization class is still teaches about assembly instructions going through pipelines.

no one is against C or assembly, they are direct models of how machine works, they provide native access to underlying stuff.

the same can't be said for C++, e.g. its OO concept seemed to be cool back in the 90s, but after so many decades, at the core of a legacy language, it is now well known that OO is not the choice, modern languages no longer focus on OO for good reasons.

I encourage everyone to learn C, if they have time, learning ASM is also a good investment. At the same time, I think C++ should be depreciated.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#342

Post by tw1984 »

jahnu wrote: post #300
tw1984 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for stuff like gaming & HFT, you are probably forced to do it in C++, it is a sad reality affecting small % of developers. for everything else, if you are still building fresh new projects in C++, you are making a big mistake. C++ today is like Cobol in 2010. yes, there are reasons for them to exist, people tell your the good old days, probably some fresh good recent experience. but come on, there is a much better pl…

As mentioned below we are doing audio plugins. Every cycle is precious to our artists. Especially since we are doing spectral effects.

I do precise timing with accuracy up to +/- 1ns and some of my hardware are of 10-100pt resolution.

I use C and Rust for such serious stuff as I don't have free time to waste to just entertain those over designed concepts like OO or STL. you need to be honest - the stdlib of C++ is not on par with the ones in rust or golang. It is more like stone age tools compared with starlink.

I sincerely hope that all C++ users will be able to benefit from the networking addition to the C++ stdlib before their retirement - you know after 40 years waiting not all C++ developers had such pleasure.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#343

Post by tw1984 »

jahnu wrote: post #296
drdrey wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the audio plugin space?

Yep! We release the same plugins on Windows, macOS and iOS so we get great coverage with compilers too. I should set up a build for Linux with gcc but haven’t had the time yet.

cross-platform is no longer a bonus of a language or a toolchain. it is a must to have feature in any modern language.

to give you some example - using the exact same toolchain on amd64/macos, I can build my golang code to run natively on risc-v/linux or arm64/windows. everything happens within seconds as I just need to override two environmental variables.

there is no "haven't had the time yet" problem in such modern languages. it is by design, in the very core of the language and its native toolchain.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#344

Post by tw1984 »

lionkor wrote: post #99
tw1984 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ is legacy. You can't just ignore the fundamentals.

That doesnt change the fact that software has been written in it, and will be written in it.

Same can be said for BASIC, my favourite childhood language.

you know people collect old cars, computers, stamps as hobby, tens of millions of people are into that. for the exact same reason, there will be people who are just into writing software using legacy tools. I totally understand & respect such decisions.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#345

Post by chrismcb »

jedberg wrote: post #286
stagger87 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify, you used the word "abuse" several times to describe a job where you would have to work in office between 8:30 to 5 and pull (I'm safely assuming) half a million dollars a year?

8:30 to 5 was required, but also never working at home was required, so what I was trying to (poorly) say is that they basically expected you to live in the office and never see your family. I'll update accordingly. And the comp package I turned down was about $700k at the time, which was 10 years ago. Nowadays it would be a $1M+ job easy. But not seeing my family is not worth any amount of money to me, since there a…

Most jobs want you in the office 8 hours a day.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#346

Post by cjbgkagh »

chrismcb wrote: post #345
jedberg wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8:30 to 5 was required, but also never working at home was required, so what I was trying to (poorly) say is that they basically expected you to live in the office and never see your family. I'll update accordingly. And the comp package I turned down was about $700k at the time, which was 10 years ago. Nowadays it would be a $1M+ job easy. But not seeing my family is not worth any amount of money to me, since there a…

Most jobs want you in the office 8 hours a day.

I think it’s the long hours of abuse, not that the long hours are themselves abuse.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#347

Post by asveikau »

tw1984 wrote: post #243
warmwaffles wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... setting out to learn C++ in 2023 is a major career limiting factor. No it is not. > Let's be clear, learning C++ in 2023 is like migration to Russia/China/Cuba No it is not. > you give away all your reasonable freedoms & funs to submit yourself to the mercy of a close group of "elites" who try so damn hard to dictate your life & work. No you do not. It is not a slavery operation. Learning C/C++ now is a good fo…

Please stop mixing C and C++ together. Learn C gets you to know all the underlying mechanisms. Learning C++ gives you nothing else but some overmarked concepts like OO.

I see a lot of c++ influence in rust.

Specifically smart pointers that track ownership, raii.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#348

Post by jedberg »

chrismcb wrote: post #345
jedberg wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8:30 to 5 was required, but also never working at home was required, so what I was trying to (poorly) say is that they basically expected you to live in the office and never see your family. I'll update accordingly. And the comp package I turned down was about $700k at the time, which was 10 years ago. Nowadays it would be a $1M+ job easy. But not seeing my family is not worth any amount of money to me, since there a…

Most jobs want you in the office 8 hours a day.

Yes but I think you're missing the point. It's not the eight hours, it was the specific eight hours regardless of any other work you did plus all the overtime that couldn't be done at home. ie. The complete lack of seeing one's family.

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#349

Post by none_to_remain »

Some years back I was interviewing and some recruiter or HR says to me "so from your resume it looks like you're a C++ expert, right" and I was able to control myself and say something like "I definitely have C++ experience" rather than "listen buddy, does it say 'Stroustrup' or 'Sutter' on top of my resume?"

Re: The pool of talented C++ developers is running dry

#350

Post by whiddershins »

stouset wrote: post #279
dahfizz wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does your employer pay you if they don't take money from anyone?

By providing a service to customers, rather than finding ways to skim money off the top of markets?

Just try imagining in what ways the world would be different if financial markets were very slow and inefficient.
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