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Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

pugetsystems.com

101–110 of 243 posts

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#101

Tangent: what's the cheapest 4TB+ PCIe SSD without significant known issues but with hardware encryption? The SN850x seems to have its own issues, and beyond these everything else seems so expensive.

Is hardware encryption a widespread feature?

What are the benefits of it for you, compared to OS-level full disk encryption?

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#102
post #77

The real problem is OS:es that write to disk for no good reason. Windows 10 writes 100KB/s constantly. That should be illegal.

This doesn't actually matter in a practical sense. Assuming 24/7, it's 3TB a year. Which is ~1% drive endurance.

Also, if you are worried about overwriting the same files over and over, it also doesn't matter. Block device addresses are not physical addresses, controller maps them to wear the drive evenly.

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months ago I already updated my Samsung SSD by following this procedure: https://askubuntu.com/a/1386451 . Theoretically they provide an image to boot from to do the update, but the image seems very outdated and did not recognize my keyboard so it was unusable.

I now found and followed this: https://blog.quindorian.org/2021/05/firmware-update-samsung-... And it seems to have worked. After extracting this updater tool and running it, smartctl kept showing the old firmware version (3B2QGXA7), but after reboot it now shows the new version (5B2QGXA7). I took the risk of running this while the OS (Archlinux) was running with the disk mounted (this is the OS install disk), and at…

Thanks, but that takes me to old firmware. I was however able to download the new firmware from https://semiconductor.samsung.com/consumer-storage/support/t... and use the same procedure and it worked:

    ├─SSD 980 PRO 2TB:
    │     Device ID:          03281da317dccd2b18de2bd1cc70a782df40ed7e
    │     Summary:            NVM Express solid state drive
    │     Current version:    5B2QGXA7

My home is on non-redundant stripe of two 980 Pro which both had the bad firmware, so I was obviously motivated, but not panicked as it's replicated hourly to spinning rust (and I have offsite backups). I treat Flash memory as dynamic ram with only slightly better retention.

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#104

I've been trying to find a decent endurance NVME in the m.2 form factor for write-heavy applications and it appears that true 2-bit MLC has all but disappeared, replaced by 3-bit TLC and higher (with commensurate loss of endurance) The high endurance SSDs appear to be only available in u.2\u.3\hhhl and god-help-me EDSFF form factors Any suggestions? Micron's 7450 isn't readily available

You may also want to ask over on reddit in /r/newMaxx. Good place for SSD info and there is a pinned post for asking questions like this

NewMaxx SSD references: http://ssd.borecraft.com/

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#105
post #27
post #6

I really want to see ssd manufacturers offer a decent warranty... This drive costs $100, and will last 10 years or until 100TB has been written to it, as long as you keep it within the specified temperature/humidity/power conditions. If it fails to do that, we will return $1000 to you.

I am not sure why you want a 10x refund, but it seems like your request is easily met by current warrantees. A 1TB WD SN850X advertises 1200TBW endurance, rather more than you require.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/punitive_damages

Seems clear the idea is to make sure that companies err well on the side of lifespan rather than designing something that fails a month after the warranty expires. Because if they're cutting it close, a decent number of units are going to fall under the warranty line and they'll be liable.

Even if a company is required to stand behind the product, a lot of consumers won't pursue it if it's not perceived to be worth the trouble. Do you care about the 120GB drive you bought in 2012? Not really. Do you care if you can get 10x the original ($1/gb) purchase price for it? Sure, $1200 is worth my trouble.

As they say - "A times B times C, if that's less than X, the cost of a recall, we don't do one".

I'm not OP and am not gonna die on this hill as a point of policy, but if 9/10 consumers just shrug their shoulders and accept that their 8yr old drive has failed and throw it in the garbage, that's still a bad thing at a society-wide level where you want people to be using hardware for longer and longer periods of time. Especially as moore's law tapers down even further and hardware becomes relevant for longer and longer periods of time - a R9 290X is still a pretty nice piece of hardware!

Michigan used to do something very similar with checkout price scanners - if the price coded in the system was more than advertised, you got 10 times the difference up to a limit. And the point was to get retailers to pay fucking attention because a 50 cent pricing error on a can of chili could cost them 5 bucks. Punitive damages, with citizens who spot the violations receiving the bounty.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/michigan_changed_item_pricing_...

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#106
post #80
post #54

Apparently a few months ago it became known on the Chinese internet that the 980 Pro, 970 Evo Plus with new controller, and OEM versions are prone to getting unreadable sectors, where SMART 'Media and Data Integrity Errors' increases on every read attempt. https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/x82mwe/samsung_ss... https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/x8arle/psa_sam... How I came across this: Ran into th…

My anecdata: tl;dr: All 3 of my Samsung M.2 NVMe SSDs have failed in less than 3 years. 100% failure rate. My first SSD was a 1TB Samsung 970 EVO. It failed after 2 years and 8 months. It was replaced under warranty with a 1TB 970 EVO Plus. That replacement has now also failed after 1 year and 9 months. I bought a 2nd 1TB 970 EVO Plus in May 2019. It has now also failed (2 years and 7 months). Both are expected to be…

My anecdata, I have been running 4x 500GB Samsung 850 EVOs in Raid 0 continuously without failures since early 2015.

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#108
I have a puget system with the Samsung SSDs mentioned and it locks up on me every 2-4 weeks. This sounds like it would explain the problem. Puget sent out a message this week to upgrade the Samsung firmware, but I am at the latest. I’ll be contacting Puget support on Monday so I’m on their radar.

I will say I love my Puget, its performance has been killer other than these lockups. And I’ve heard only good things about Puget support. I should have reported this months ago, but it’s just now that I’m doing some critical work on Windows that it’s affecting me.

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#109

I wish more independent review organizations would conduct destructive "write lifespan until ultimate failure" real world tests on SSDs. With a mixture of real world large contiguous files and small random writes. Real ultimate write lifespan on 3-level-cell and QLC consumer grade SSDs varies wildly for things of the same capacity and similar price. Such as this series of tests from 7 years ago: https://techreport.co…

>destructive "write lifespan until ultimate failure" real world tests on SSDs

>from 7 years ago

It's from 7 years back for good reason. They stopped doing those tests when it became impractical as endurance increased. The drives are now good enough that you can't wear them out fast enough to make sense in a review setting

...unless fundamentally broken like these

Re: Update on Samsung SSD Reliability

#110

Just a note as a happy customer of Puget Systems that my experience working with them has been excellent, they really seem to be expert in their field, and have been for many years. Also, their submerged in mineral oil aquarium computer was really cool, back in the day.

I use my Puget for build performance for a large mono-repo at Adobe. I could set my watch to the consistency in memory and CPU usage during a full build of our products.
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