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Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

matduggan.com

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Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#161

Post by jeffwask »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #157
jeffwask wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two different contexts around layoffs. 1) The company is struggling, losing money, etc and needs to tackle corrective action before everyone loses their jobs. 2) The company is generating record revenues, profits are high, but growth will be 4% instead of 5% so we need layoffs. There seem to be a staggering number of layoffs from camp two. > But it's weird to see all of these think pieces implying that once…

> " Is anyone really going to miss that $4 billion? " Yes, the people who own the company will, i.e. shareholders. The majority are not some cartoonish greedy fatcats either; they're ordinary people like you and I who have retirement investments in stocks and mutual funds. Moreover, if you think employees at FAANGs and big tech companies aren't on-board with this laser focus on share price, remember that a big, big c…

> The majority are not some cartoonish greedy fatcats either;

53% of all stocks are held by the 1% so yes Virginia the MAJORITY are some cartoonish greedy fatcats

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#163

Post by bradleyjg »

Apocryphon wrote: post #155
bradleyjg wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t need to do any such thing. Just point out that no reasonable alternative has been proposed by anyone and conclude that it’s therefore infantile whining.

German-style Rhine capitalism with co-determination for labor unions and a robust social safety net that isn’t even as leftist as the Scandinavian countries.

It’s still capitalism, so if you want that why are you going around saying “fuck capitalism”?

Scandinavia has capitalism too, welfare capitalism, sure, but still capitalism.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#164

Post by [deleted] »

jeffwask wrote: post #161
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " Is anyone really going to miss that $4 billion? " Yes, the people who own the company will, i.e. shareholders. The majority are not some cartoonish greedy fatcats either; they're ordinary people like you and I who have retirement investments in stocks and mutual funds. Moreover, if you think employees at FAANGs and big tech companies aren't on-board with this laser focus on share price, remember that a big, big c…

> The majority are not some cartoonish greedy fatcats either; 53% of all stocks are held by the 1% so yes Virginia the MAJORITY are some cartoonish greedy fatcats

[deleted]

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#165

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

jeffwask wrote: post #161
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " Is anyone really going to miss that $4 billion? " Yes, the people who own the company will, i.e. shareholders. The majority are not some cartoonish greedy fatcats either; they're ordinary people like you and I who have retirement investments in stocks and mutual funds. Moreover, if you think employees at FAANGs and big tech companies aren't on-board with this laser focus on share price, remember that a big, big c…

> The majority are not some cartoonish greedy fatcats either; 53% of all stocks are held by the 1% so yes Virginia the MAJORITY are some cartoonish greedy fatcats

FAANG and other big tech employees can earn in the top 1-5% annual income and can reach the top 1% net worth, which suggests that likely they're more aligned with the cartoonish greedy fatcats than any other worldview so I can't imagine why you think that would help your argument. Beyond that, while I have met a few individuals that I'd describe as villainous, I'd say the majority whom I suspected of that level of wealth were fairly normal and decent people.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#166

Post by Apocryphon »

bradleyjg wrote: post #163
Apocryphon wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German-style Rhine capitalism with co-determination for labor unions and a robust social safety net that isn’t even as leftist as the Scandinavian countries.

It’s still capitalism, so if you want that why are you going around saying “fuck capitalism”? Scandinavia has capitalism too, welfare capitalism, sure, but still capitalism.

Who said I'm going around saying that? But it's still a reasonable alternative to the form of capitalism currently practiced in America. So you are incorrect in saying that nothing is being proposed.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#167

Post by TapWaterBandit »

perfecthjrjth wrote: post #146
techsupporter wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are saying that these mass layoffs and the way they are conducted are harmful to society and not as beneficial to the business as CEOs and investors want to believe. Exactly this, though I also propose as the end of your sentence, "...as CEOs and investors claim." We get told a lot of false or true-but-in-the-abstract motives. The McSweeney's article[0] nails it perfectly for me. I am in the gap in the middl…

Stable pensions are gone, that's why so much hustle everywhere: ranging from drop shipping to becoming slum lords through BRRRR investing.

Stable pensions are gone because they were built on a ponzi scheme based on a demographic moment in history that has now passed.

In hindsight those stable pensions were actually extremely immoral in a way. They allowed for a demographic moment where a large portion of workers consumed everything they produced with too little saving while supporting a much smaller number of retired and simultaneously telling themselves the next generation would pay for their retirement needs.

Well as 1 millennial all I can say is fuck that. I didn't sign up to support your prolifigacy in your youth and have no intention of doing so (to the best of my ability).

If you want a stable pension alongside an often decades long retirement, then start saving when you're young or have a lot of children to support you.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#168

Post by dragonwriter »

TapWaterBandit wrote: post #167
perfecthjrjth wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stable pensions are gone, that's why so much hustle everywhere: ranging from drop shipping to becoming slum lords through BRRRR investing.

Stable pensions are gone because they were built on a ponzi scheme based on a demographic moment in history that has now passed. In hindsight those stable pensions were actually extremely immoral in a way. They allowed for a demographic moment where a large portion of workers consumed everything they produced with too little saving while supporting a much smaller number of retired and simultaneously telling themselve…

> Stable pensions are gone because they were built on a ponzi scheme based on a demographic moment in history that has now passed.

They are gone because of a conscious choice, manifested through tax policy, to transfer risk from capital to workers. (To the extent changing demographics would have impacted them in any case, it would have reduced the pension amounts.)

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#169

Post by jrochkind1 »

dougmwne wrote: post #22
mattikus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're being a bit uncharitable and jaded here. For many, events like these are actually the catalyst that causes one to "grow up", which is what the author is conveying.

Absolutely. Nearly everyone I know left college doe-eyed and ready to dedicate a piece of their soul to their shiny new job. Everyone learned otherwise one person at a time. Some worked for “we’re all a family” companies and were able to remain innocent ignorants till the day the axe fell.

It's almost like... people really want to find meaning and purpose in an occupation, community in the place they spend at least half of their waking hours, and work they can be proud of. How... immature?

I agree that the present society cannot generally fulfill these wants/needs.

Re: Layoffs Are Cruel and Don't Work

#170

Post by techsupporter »

TapWaterBandit wrote: post #167
perfecthjrjth wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stable pensions are gone, that's why so much hustle everywhere: ranging from drop shipping to becoming slum lords through BRRRR investing.

Stable pensions are gone because they were built on a ponzi scheme based on a demographic moment in history that has now passed. In hindsight those stable pensions were actually extremely immoral in a way. They allowed for a demographic moment where a large portion of workers consumed everything they produced with too little saving while supporting a much smaller number of retired and simultaneously telling themselve…

> If you want a stable pension alongside an often decades long retirement, then start saving when you're young or have a lot of children to support you.

I just want to point out that you're largely proving my point. I got started on saving later in my career because the first few years were spent laboring under the idea that pensions existed. (The 401k was rolled out after I got my first job, for example.)

We had the rug pulled, and there are a lot of GenX people who are going to be in a lot worse situation than me, someone who was lucky enough to get into a high-paying career and stay there (that is, I've never been laid off..so far) and deliberately did not have many children or take vacations or have lucked into not getting sick.

We are both in the same boat; you just have the "advantage", useless for anything it is, of never having thought you were on land.

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