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AWS Tape Gateway

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Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#81

Post by capableweb »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #64
zetazzed wrote: post #61

I think I'll point to this as one of the examples of how AWS has been scrappy and successful. (Yes, I'll get like 10 flames on this comment.) They made this nice simple API for S3 that has become a de facto standard. They added lots of features and security controls, and I can easily imagine an architect saying "everyone should just adopt S3, it's so easy!" But huge, paying customers were used to tape libraries so th…

When someone is waving money in your face and saying "please just give me the thing I want and I will give you all this money", it's ridiculous not to listen. So many competitors just don't listen.

> So many competitors just don't listen

Sometimes people build things/products/companies/whatever not because of the chase of money, but because they want to put their idea in the world. Maybe it's just a case of someone believing they can build something grander :)

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#82

Post by ff317 »

harshaw wrote: post #75
jurassic wrote: post #23

> Tape Gateway stores virtual tapes in Amazon S3, Amazon S3 Glacier Flexible Retrieval, and Amazon S3 Glacier Deep Archive, protected by 99.999999999% of durability. That’s a lot of 9s.

Think about it in terms of erasure encoding where you can have enough shards on enough hosts. That's how you get the durability.

Yeah but that's also incredibly naive. Inevitably there will be some un-calculated-for shortcuts that make all those copies not as failure-independent as they seem. If nothing else, what are the odds some random Amazon engineer makes a software rollout or hardware upgrade mistake and takes out a whole lot of copies in the process?

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#83

Post by dragonwriter »

capableweb wrote: post #80
chickenpotpie wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> damnit, fine we'll pretend to be a tape library IIRC, they may not be pretending. It's not public knowledge what storage medium AWS glacier is built on, but many speculate it is actually tape.

Well, they do call it "virtual tapes", would be weird (maybe even illegal? False/misleading advertisement?) if they ended up storing it on physical tapes anyways. Edit: found in another thread here, the inventor linked the patent ( https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa... ) which confirms it's virtual tapes, not actual tapes.

> Well, they do call it "virtual tapes", would be weird (maybe even illegal? False/misleading advertisement?) if they ended up storing it on physical tapes anyways.

No, just like it is not weird and definitely not illegal for the things they call “virtual machines” to end up being run on actual machines.

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#84

Post by [deleted] »

capableweb wrote: post #80
chickenpotpie wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> damnit, fine we'll pretend to be a tape library IIRC, they may not be pretending. It's not public knowledge what storage medium AWS glacier is built on, but many speculate it is actually tape.

Well, they do call it "virtual tapes", would be weird (maybe even illegal? False/misleading advertisement?) if they ended up storing it on physical tapes anyways. Edit: found in another thread here, the inventor linked the patent ( https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa... ) which confirms it's virtual tapes, not actual tapes.

[deleted]

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#85

Post by capableweb »

dragonwriter wrote: post #83
capableweb wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they do call it "virtual tapes", would be weird (maybe even illegal? False/misleading advertisement?) if they ended up storing it on physical tapes anyways. Edit: found in another thread here, the inventor linked the patent ( https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa... ) which confirms it's virtual tapes, not actual tapes.

> Well, they do call it "virtual tapes", would be weird (maybe even illegal? False/misleading advertisement?) if they ended up storing it on physical tapes anyways. No, just like it is not weird and definitely not illegal for the things they call “virtual machines” to end up being run on actual machines.

If you purchase a service describing it as "isolated virtual machines" and it ends up just being processes on a computer without any virtualization, wouldn't you call that at least misleading?

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#86

Post by dragonwriter »

capableweb wrote: post #85
dragonwriter wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, they do call it "virtual tapes", would be weird (maybe even illegal? False/misleading advertisement?) if they ended up storing it on physical tapes anyways. No, just like it is not weird and definitely not illegal for the things they call “virtual machines” to end up being run on actual machines.

If you purchase a service describing it as "isolated virtual machines" and it ends up just being processes on a computer without any virtualization, wouldn't you call that at least misleading?

Well, yes, because the “isolated” is false, not because the “virtual machine” abstraction is realized on a real machine.

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#87

Post by jeffrallen »

OliverJones wrote: post #66

HEY! Before you adopt this check the bandwidth egress costs! Seriously. Your disaster recovery plan will need to budget for extra egress costs if you ever need to restore something big from one of those virtual tapes. AWS charges for egress -- downbound -- bandwidth but they don't charge for ingress -- upbound -- bandwidth. (And I think it's funny their icons and images look like old school DECTapes.)

The roach motel of data: your data goes in, but it doesn't go out (for free).

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#88

Post by capableweb »

dragonwriter wrote: post #86
capableweb wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you purchase a service describing it as "isolated virtual machines" and it ends up just being processes on a computer without any virtualization, wouldn't you call that at least misleading?

Well, yes, because the “isolated” is false, not because the “virtual machine” abstraction is realized on a real machine.

Right. If it says "Virtual machines" and it isn't, you wouldn't call that at least misleading?

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#89

Post by posguy »

MisterPea wrote: post #76
oneplane wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that's been my experience as well. AWS (and Amazon as a whole) are bad for the people that work there, but as for their service offerings, it would take GCP and Azure combined to get even close.

I think if you took a poll of AWS workers you'd find that most enjoy it. The culture leads to a vocal minority who REALLY hate it but my time there was some of the most enjoyable I've ever had. I've worked with some of the smartest people in the tech field, building products from scratch for billion dollar customers and learning every day. I've always told people that it's probably the best place you can start out of…

Amazon is a turn and burn employer at its heart. I've watched dozens of friends and acquaintances work there, rarely making it past 2 years, only to leave for less caustic organization thereafter.

Unless your willing to put up with a huge ration of shit on a regular basis, or you make it into management, your time is limited by the up and out mentality of the organization as a whole.

Amazon has created the perfect scenario to spend shitloads of money getting talent up to speed, only to part ways with them shortly thereafter.

Re: AWS Tape Gateway

#90

Post by klabb3 »

OliverJones wrote: post #66

HEY! Before you adopt this check the bandwidth egress costs! Seriously. Your disaster recovery plan will need to budget for extra egress costs if you ever need to restore something big from one of those virtual tapes. AWS charges for egress -- downbound -- bandwidth but they don't charge for ingress -- upbound -- bandwidth. (And I think it's funny their icons and images look like old school DECTapes.)

> Before you adopt this check the bandwidth egress costs!

Closed, works as intended: This is the industry-standard price model for all ransomware.

/light sarcasm

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