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The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

modernfarmer.com

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Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#151

Post by tomatotomato37 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #87
mattpallissard wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why the general tone of HN seems to be that modern farming isn't changing at all. Erosion has been on everyone's radar for decades. We went from plow -> till -> low till -> no till. Believe me, the folks who do this talk about plowing practices and cover crops. They also discuss GMO crops and the crazy legal restrictions around seed that come with it. > Brown earth has a deep top layer where most of the…

I think people see a sea of corn and don’t appreciate nuance. The bigger issue that farmers are ignoring is water.

Farmers are well aware of water and the sustainablity of its sources. It just so happens that the equilibrium point they aim for is sustainability for them, not them & everybody else that happens to live downstream

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#152

Post by ulnarkressty »

hammock wrote: post #26
photochemsyn wrote: post #19

A remarkable amount of the fertilizer applied via modern industrial farming practices is just wasted: > "According to an average of 13 global databases from 10 data sources, in 2010, 161 teragrams of nitrogen were applied to agricultural crops, but only 73 teragrams of nitrogen made it to the harvested crop. A total of 86 teragrams of nitrogen was wasted, perhaps ending up in the water, air, or soil. The new research…

There is so little organic matter in the topsoil due to modern farming practices and it gets worse every year. The result is soil that doesn't retain water, it just runs off. This means that irrigation has to be more and more frequent, and it means that fertilizer runs off (causing algal blooms etc) more than it percolates into the soil Lots of places to read more about this issue and here's a start: https://www.nhm.…

Farmers mix superabsorbent polymers in the soil to improve water retention.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-Price-Wholesa...

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#153

Post by csdvrx »

Alex3917 wrote: post #69
photochemsyn wrote: post #19

A remarkable amount of the fertilizer applied via modern industrial farming practices is just wasted: > "According to an average of 13 global databases from 10 data sources, in 2010, 161 teragrams of nitrogen were applied to agricultural crops, but only 73 teragrams of nitrogen made it to the harvested crop. A total of 86 teragrams of nitrogen was wasted, perhaps ending up in the water, air, or soil. The new research…

> A remarkable amount of the fertilizer applied via modern industrial farming practices is just wasted You can also cut out most of the nitrogen just by using Plant Growth Promoting Bacteria (e.g. azospirillum), but most US farmers don't do that. Without PGPBs, most of the plant's energy is wasted just trying to uptake the nitrogen from the soil. Whereas the with the bacteria, not only do the bacteria produce the nit…

> but most US farmers don't do that

Why?

Is it not cost-effective?

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#155

Post by ClumsyPilot »

danuker wrote: post #120
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> High prices might prompt some people elsewhere to reduce their consumption By dying. There is a famine in madagascar right now.v > in favor of ones more in need. Do you need 1 kg of bacon more than a poor family in madagascar needs 10kg of wheat that was used to feed your bacon? > How is my thinking dangerous? Because men than need to feed their children might grab torches and pitchforks Free market does not store…

In Romania, there is a wave of people installing their own electricity production in response to the higher prices. This will reduce electricity demand, and therefore prices, including for other countries. This is an example of government getting out of the way (and deciding against the former oligopoly of energy suppliers). https://www.energynomics.ro/en/anre-the-number-of-prosumers-...

Let's examine this claim - currently there are 20,000 people and there is projection that it will eventually reach 100,000. Am I correct in understanding that we are talking about 0.1% of the population today and 0.5% of the population in two years?

A greater percentage of population in Britain own and ride horses - so I could write about a great opportunity of having transportation independent of governments, fuels, etc.

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#156

Post by debacle »

eru wrote: post #139
debacle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regenerative agriculture relies on poultry and livestock to restore the topsoil layer. Meat isn't going away. In fact, we may wind up eating more, not less, of it, over time.

> Regenerative agriculture relies on poultry and livestock to restore the topsoil layer. Why not use human excrement instead?

"The use of untreated human feces in agriculture poses significant health risks and has contributed to widespread infection with parasitic worms—a disease called helminthiasis, affecting over 1.5 billion people in developing countries."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_feces

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#157

Post by codingdave »

tengbretson wrote: post #94
ilostmyshoes wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they don't seem to be talking about is learning from indigenous farming communities who use things like diversity in crops and rotation to keep soil quality high. These problems were solved decades ago, just not by the industrial farming community

It's like everyone who's ever watched a YouTube video about planting a 3 sisters garden has an opinion for the people actually staking their livelihood on this now.

It is more about that fact that people talking about sustainable food production do not share many goals with commodity farmers exchanging corn and soybeans for as much cash as possible.

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#158

Post by willcipriano »

kortilla wrote: post #141
ilostmyshoes wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they don't seem to be talking about is learning from indigenous farming communities who use things like diversity in crops and rotation to keep soil quality high. These problems were solved decades ago, just not by the industrial farming community

Pretending indigenous communities “solved” this is a farce. If we switched to their methods 90% of the population would need to die because they don’t scale.

What percentage of indigenous people were involved in farming? 100%? It's less than 3% today.

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#159

Post by LarryMullins »

mattpallissard wrote: post #58
hammock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so little organic matter in the topsoil due to modern farming practices and it gets worse every year. The result is soil that doesn't retain water, it just runs off. This means that irrigation has to be more and more frequent, and it means that fertilizer runs off (causing algal blooms etc) more than it percolates into the soil Lots of places to read more about this issue and here's a start: https://www.nhm.…

I'm not sure why the general tone of HN seems to be that modern farming isn't changing at all. Erosion has been on everyone's radar for decades. We went from plow -> till -> low till -> no till. Believe me, the folks who do this talk about plowing practices and cover crops. They also discuss GMO crops and the crazy legal restrictions around seed that come with it. > Brown earth has a deep top layer where most of the…

> I'm not sure why the general tone of HN seems to be that modern farming isn't changing at all.

Indeed. Perhaps somewhere out there is a parallel forum filled with farmers opining about computer programming, with equally inane remarks like "Have those programmers ever thought about making languages that translate into machine code instead of writing everything out as ones and zeros?"

Re: The fertilizer shortage will persist in 2023

#160

Post by zdragnar »

tmountain wrote: post #51
hammock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so little organic matter in the topsoil due to modern farming practices and it gets worse every year. The result is soil that doesn't retain water, it just runs off. This means that irrigation has to be more and more frequent, and it means that fertilizer runs off (causing algal blooms etc) more than it percolates into the soil Lots of places to read more about this issue and here's a start: https://www.nhm.…

Yup, most gardening books start off talking about humus, “dark, organic material that forms in soil when plant and animal matter decays.” Industrial farms are very far away from the foundations of healthy soil, and they need copious amounts of fertilizer and water to compensate. The food produced is less nutritious and less sustainable as a result. Consider investing in a local CSA if you have the opportunity. It’s a…

CSAs where I live are a luxury good for a few people to feel better about themselves. You pay in much more than you get back (compared to a grocery store), and what you get is geared towards variety to make it more appealing. As such, you get enough of any particular veg for one or two meals, at a cost that is wildly expensive for most people. I tried one summer, and it was cute but replaced approximately 0% of our grocery bill.
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