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The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

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Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#11
post #2

Aren't the real oil thieves of Nigeria the state?

Why should the natural resources of a nation belong to anyone else? Are the Australian government "thieves" for taxing Rio Tinto?

> Why should the natural resources of a nation belong to anyone else?

They should belong to the people. The state and the people are not the same thing in Australia and certainly not the same thing in Nigeria.

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#12

A very long and interesting read…a true story of how incessant corruption and incompetence is making my country fall apart daily…but sure, people still continue to vote in the corrupt and inept leaders. I honestly think people largely get what they deserve. We’ve decided to shun competence and embrace corruption…no surprise we’re seeing the results in a failed economy. Really hope the Labour Party candidate wins the…

I thought a lot about this being from a country with severe corruption problems, although not nearly as bad as yours. I agree that in these situations "people largely get what they deserve" but I don't think the problem is that they vote for corrupt leaders. I think the problem is the people themselves, their culture and values are a lot more corrupt compared to a civilized country. You can observe corruption at every level, not just the top, a fact that you mention as well. Even the poorest people, the ones who are victims of corruption are just as corrupt themselves. They are exploiting any opportunity to steal for themselves and would not change a thing given significant power but only steal more.

I don't know if I made myself understood, my point is I don't think this is a situation you can vote yourself out of. I honestly don't know what can be done in such situations.

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the natural resources of a nation belong to anyone else? Are the Australian government "thieves" for taxing Rio Tinto?

> Why should the natural resources of a nation belong to anyone else? They should belong to the people. The state and the people are not the same thing in Australia and certainly not the same thing in Nigeria.

>>They should belong to the people.

I mean, that sounds like a nice slogan that doesn't really mean anything. Can you give an example of what that would mean in practice?

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#14

A very long and interesting read…a true story of how incessant corruption and incompetence is making my country fall apart daily…but sure, people still continue to vote in the corrupt and inept leaders. I honestly think people largely get what they deserve. We’ve decided to shun competence and embrace corruption…no surprise we’re seeing the results in a failed economy. Really hope the Labour Party candidate wins the…

I thought a lot about this being from a country with severe corruption problems, although not nearly as bad as yours. I agree that in these situations "people largely get what they deserve" but I don't think the problem is that they vote for corrupt leaders. I think the problem is the people themselves, their culture and values are a lot more corrupt compared to a civilized country. You can observe corruption at ever…

It's neither values or "people getting what they deserve". Nor is it "socialism". Resources are just a curse.

When resources dominate an economy like in Venezuela or Nigeria or Iraq or Russia then the spoils get contested and that fighting inevitably leads to unstable governments, authoritarianism, corruption, economic stagnation, etc. etc.

The only country to really escape the resource curse is Norway and that's likely coz they were discovered quite late after they had developed a high trust society and were able to manage the spoils effectively and fairly. They're the exception not the rule.

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#15
This is not a new development. You can find more context in the website of the British NGO Stakeholder Democracy Network that has been working there since 2004:

https://www.stakeholderdemocracy.org/resources/sdn-multimedi...

Full list of resources including those videos and also reports and guides to these topics: https://www.stakeholderdemocracy.org/resources/

Between 2013 and 2019 I worked as freelancer with them on two applications for the Nigerian National Oil Spill Detection and Response Agency (NOSDRA), the Oil Spill Monitor and the Gas Flare Tracker:

https://sentido-labs.com/en/portfolio/?filter=oil%20gas

There are many aspects to this conflict. One is the cultural division that the linked article only hints at: most power and wealth is held by Muslims from the north of the country (where the capital Abuja is) while the population in the Niger Delta (the oil-rich part) is predominantly Christian. Recently the president of Nigeria mentioned that weapons from Ukraine are finding their way to Nigeria ( https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/weapons-deliver... ). The same happened years ago from Libya when Gaddafi was killed in 2011.

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#16

A very long and interesting read…a true story of how incessant corruption and incompetence is making my country fall apart daily…but sure, people still continue to vote in the corrupt and inept leaders. I honestly think people largely get what they deserve. We’ve decided to shun competence and embrace corruption…no surprise we’re seeing the results in a failed economy. Really hope the Labour Party candidate wins the…

I thought a lot about this being from a country with severe corruption problems, although not nearly as bad as yours. I agree that in these situations "people largely get what they deserve" but I don't think the problem is that they vote for corrupt leaders. I think the problem is the people themselves, their culture and values are a lot more corrupt compared to a civilized country. You can observe corruption at ever…

i struggle to get on board with "corruption as a cultural value". What's deeper than these are usually more positive values, perhaps it's entepreneuralism, or often its just a sense of justice (communal resources belong to members of community). What you see is "corruption at every level" is just a systemic lubricant necessary for business to occur in the absence of rules and regulations that arefair, just, "followable", and are agreed to by everyone.

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought a lot about this being from a country with severe corruption problems, although not nearly as bad as yours. I agree that in these situations "people largely get what they deserve" but I don't think the problem is that they vote for corrupt leaders. I think the problem is the people themselves, their culture and values are a lot more corrupt compared to a civilized country. You can observe corruption at ever…

It's neither values or "people getting what they deserve". Nor is it "socialism". Resources are just a curse. When resources dominate an economy like in Venezuela or Nigeria or Iraq or Russia then the spoils get contested and that fighting inevitably leads to unstable governments, authoritarianism, corruption, economic stagnation, etc. etc. The only country to really escape the resource curse is Norway and that's lik…

Eastern Europe (where I'm from) has no significant resources. The corruption is still rampant. So there must be another cause.

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's neither values or "people getting what they deserve". Nor is it "socialism". Resources are just a curse. When resources dominate an economy like in Venezuela or Nigeria or Iraq or Russia then the spoils get contested and that fighting inevitably leads to unstable governments, authoritarianism, corruption, economic stagnation, etc. etc. The only country to really escape the resource curse is Norway and that's lik…

Eastern Europe (where I'm from) has no significant resources. The corruption is still rampant. So there must be another cause.

Eastern Europe has been routinely contested territory by great powers for the past 1000 years. It's got very unfortunate geography.

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought a lot about this being from a country with severe corruption problems, although not nearly as bad as yours. I agree that in these situations "people largely get what they deserve" but I don't think the problem is that they vote for corrupt leaders. I think the problem is the people themselves, their culture and values are a lot more corrupt compared to a civilized country. You can observe corruption at ever…

i struggle to get on board with "corruption as a cultural value". What's deeper than these are usually more positive values, perhaps it's entepreneuralism, or often its just a sense of justice (communal resources belong to members of community). What you see is "corruption at every level" is just a systemic lubricant necessary for business to occur in the absence of rules and regulations that arefair, just, "followab…

There is no lack of rules and regulations where I'm from - Eastern Europe. People are well aware they are breaking said rules. As for spreading wealth - far from it, everybody hoards as much as they can for themselves at the expense of others who are in many cases worse off.

About cultural values, an anecdotal example: every time somebody gets prison time for stealing, fraud, embezzlement, etc, people comment things like "4 years for X million euros? Would gladly take that deal". Also people who make money with drugs or human trafficking are idols for many young people and they are open about it. We have song hits about this life style. This is what I call culture.

Re: The Oil Thieves of Nigeria

#20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought a lot about this being from a country with severe corruption problems, although not nearly as bad as yours. I agree that in these situations "people largely get what they deserve" but I don't think the problem is that they vote for corrupt leaders. I think the problem is the people themselves, their culture and values are a lot more corrupt compared to a civilized country. You can observe corruption at ever…

It's neither values or "people getting what they deserve". Nor is it "socialism". Resources are just a curse. When resources dominate an economy like in Venezuela or Nigeria or Iraq or Russia then the spoils get contested and that fighting inevitably leads to unstable governments, authoritarianism, corruption, economic stagnation, etc. etc. The only country to really escape the resource curse is Norway and that's lik…

>When resources dominate an economy like in Venezuela or Nigeria or Iraq or Russia then the spoils get contested and that fighting inevitably leads to unstable governments, authoritarianism, corruption, economic stagnation, etc. etc.

Oh please.

Last I checked the midwest and Austrialia were doing just fine. There are tons of commodity exporters that don't fit this pattern.

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