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A manifesto on shower temperature control

benholmen.com

141–150 of 176 posts

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#141
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All thermostatic valves have cartridges that eventually wear off and need to be replaced. Cartridge is accessible from outside by removing the handle held by the side screw (handle can be stuck and hard to remove) and then unscrewing the cap. Remove the cartridge, look at the part number and buy the replacements at Amazon. Obviously cut off water to the shower first. Also handle has a small button on the bottom which…

Some even have integrated shutoff valves, so you can replace the cartridge without shutting off the water anywhere else! What a marvelous world we live in.

Wow, I wish the last one I encountered had that. Plumber hooked up the shower valve fixture backward at my dad's new place. Also didn't even properly tighten the screws. Thermostatic valves aren't reversible, so it just didn't work right at all (basically got to choose full-hot or full-cold). They neglected to provide a shutoff for the shower, and he wasn't sure about draining whole system (it's an over-engineered water system with well-draw, sump pump, water softener, multiple redundant filters, gas water heater, array of in-floor heating, hydronic air furnace, and who knows what else). Access around/behind the fixture plate was non-existant.

In retrospect probably should have just clamped the soft lines upstream to effect the repair.

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#144

Much of the confusion in this thread comes down to the fact that in the US, the standard shower valve is a 'pressure-balanced' valve, which allows you to select a flow-ratio between hot and cold feeds, but does not in itself maintain any particular temperature - it just ensures that in the event of pressure changes on one or other feed, the overall mix is maintained (preventing temperature spikes if someone flushes a…

Well, people may not know what they are and many are certainly expensive (>$80), but there are a lot of them at your local home center. Some are just "Heat Guard" (160/135F), but most of them are full mixers with the little expanding wax valves.

Here's a page full:

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Valves/Thermostatic/N-5...

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#146
Thermostatic shower mixer by Grohe and some more manufacturers fixes this problem, and also 1) when someone shuffles the toilet on the same pipe, 2) when you use hot water from a heating tank on the cold pipe.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=grohe+thermostatic+shower&i...

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#147

As a friendly heads up to anyone exploring this space — temperature control is a complex dynamic between many components, chiefly the mixing valve, any local thermostatic dampers in the valve (rarer, but definitely a feature of high end mixers), and the source of hot water itself . Mixer taps are not simply mixing hot water at temperature H and cold water at temperature C. The temperature H which your hot water sourc…

I use a thermostatic mixer from Grohe (though there are more manufacturers in the recent years, including IKEA), and it handles normally both heating/cooling of the valve itself, and fluctuations of pressure in the pipes (when someone flushes the toilet).

Our hot water supply is off for 2 week per year for maintenance, and I use heater tank (which stores 30 L of hot water, enough to take a generous shower for 1 person). This way, cold water pressurizes both the cold valve, and the tank and the hot valve. I expected some random oscillations, but no, the thermostatic mixer worked just fine.

This is the one I have: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#148

Just bought a Grohe thermostatic shower control and it’s one of the best things I’ve ever bought. Saves water and keeps the temperature comfortable. Highly recommend a thermostatic control.

I saw these in Germany and bought one for my home when I got fed up of adjusting the shower at home. I told my parents, -- they'd have the same problem, and one would shuffle the toilet while the other was taking shower -- but they didn't bother, until I just bought and installed one for them as a gift.

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#149
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Regular thermostatic valves do not provide perfect regulation but they do in fact provide a fairly stable output temperature regardless of cold and hot water temperature, by entirely mechanical means. I have a cheap IKEA shower control and output temp is stable for the full duration of my shower even though cold nor hot water supply is stable due to a shower drain heat recovery unit. The article is mainly about…

Are cheap thermostatic shower mixer controls not so common outside middle-of-europe? This is the one with one grip that lets you set the temperature, and the other sets the flow rate. It'll (try to) hold the output temperature steady even if the input temperature varies a bit.

We have the same thing in Japan; they look almost identical to the controls I've seen in Germany. I just leave the temperature control set to the same position, and turn the other side to get the flow rate I want. It's amazing that Americans don't even know these things exist, and are still using ancient pressure controls instead.

Re: A manifesto on shower temperature control

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are cheap thermostatic shower mixer controls not so common outside middle-of-europe? This is the one with one grip that lets you set the temperature, and the other sets the flow rate. It'll (try to) hold the output temperature steady even if the input temperature varies a bit.

Indeed this solution has been standard in much of Europe for decades. It seems to have had slower uptake in the US. Donald Norman’s ”The Design of Everyday Things”, 2013 edition, contains this passage in a list of different faucet designs (p. 151): > Control temperature and rate of flow. Use two separate controls, one for water temperature, the other for flow rate. (I have never encountered this solution.) I e-mailed…

I guess this Don person never traveled outside North America.
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