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The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

davidrozado.substack.com

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Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#531

Post by mxkopy »

735892568 wrote: post #481
mxkopy wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your justification for "the thing that applies to black people should be equally applicable to men"? That's what this argument boils down to

I'm not sure what you mean. Everything in the comment I responded to apply to the same extent to women/men and white/black. Both the question in the first paragraph and the statement about crime statistics not being enough. It seems to me that the burden of providing a justification is with whoever wants to treat them differently. Why isn't the question just as applicable to gender? Why are crime statistics enough to…

> Why isn't the question just as applicable to gender?

The assumption is that gender and crime aren't related. The burden of proof is on showing that two things are related IMO. Black history and criminalization are related so you need to give context for that relationship.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#532

Post by neonsunset »

d23 wrote: post #285
hersko wrote: post #7

From the article: "AI systems that are more lenient on hateful comments about one mainstream political group than another feel particularly dystopian." I agree 100%, and this seems like a huge issue.

[flagged]

It appears this post has been flagged and removed before.

Has the most ideologically invested group logged in?

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#533

Post by habitue »

Miner49er wrote: post #497
habitue wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why left wing groups would celebrate. Other than the conservative category, most of the descriptors he used were inborn traits like being straight, being white, being a man, or immutable attributes like being from a particular country. (And honestly, being conservative may be one of those traits too, but it's less obviously true). I know it's common to look at the most unhinged people on Twitter and say…

I'm a leftist and fail to see the problem with this. Context matters. If a slave kills their master, would you say that crime is immoral? Generally punching up is considered less hateful or immoral, and I don't see why that is bad.

There's a little slight of hand you're doing here. Not getting into whether murder is ok, I definitely think there's a difference between a slaveowner and a white person. A white person can't stop being white, and they didn't choose to be white. A slaveowner is committing a violation of another human's rights. It's a thing they could have chosen not to do, and it's a thing they can choose to stop doing any time.

I don't personally think "punching up is ok" is a valid viewpoint. But even if I did, I don't think white people are "up" or men are "up" in the way that the proponents of punching up consider rich people, or oppressors to be. Skin color isn't oppression. Gender isn't oppression. Oppression is oppression.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#534

Post by kennyloginz »

remarkEon wrote: post #203
slg wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>-- Why doesn't ai say ... about the child-abuse from the catholic church ... And this is a great example of why equality can be hard in this situation. Take a random sentence about "Catholicism" and "child-abuse" and a random sentence about "Judaism" and "child-abuse". The one about Catholicism is likely a little closer to an actual sentence printed in some verifiable source about the sex abuse scandals in the churc…

“Child-abuse” is an especially good example of what you’re getting at because one of those groups has institutional male genital mutilation as part of its doctrine, while the other has high profile cases of child sexual abuse. It’s difficult to see how the model would treat those things neutrally.

Catholics promote circumcision too.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#535

Post by turbokatsu20 »

Miner49er wrote: post #497
habitue wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why left wing groups would celebrate. Other than the conservative category, most of the descriptors he used were inborn traits like being straight, being white, being a man, or immutable attributes like being from a particular country. (And honestly, being conservative may be one of those traits too, but it's less obviously true). I know it's common to look at the most unhinged people on Twitter and say…

I'm a leftist and fail to see the problem with this. Context matters. If a slave kills their master, would you say that crime is immoral? Generally punching up is considered less hateful or immoral, and I don't see why that is bad.

I would say taking somebodies life simply because of their position of dominance over you as immoral, yes.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#536

Post by whatshisface »

Imnimo wrote: post #529

Just eyeballing the list of adjectives used, the real story here is that OpenAI flags a lot of sentences that are essentially meaningless as hateful. I notice that he uses words like "evil" and "idiotic" in his diagram, but looking at his source code, his list of "356 adjectives signifying negative traits/behavior" contains the following (just to pick a few): 'airy', 'conformist', 'dark', 'escapist', 'hidebound', 'pl…

"Complete" might be taking it too far, because averages can tolerate a lot of error underneath. Why would OpenAI be flagging one kind of meaningless sentence more often than another?

It's easy to poke holes in studies by taking issue with individual data points, but unless you can either explain how those problems lead to the overall conclusion, or can do the study again with better methods and get a different answer, the original case remains standing.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#537

Post by habitue »

nhchris wrote: post #96
habitue wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why left wing groups would celebrate. Other than the conservative category, most of the descriptors he used were inborn traits like being straight, being white, being a man, or immutable attributes like being from a particular country. (And honestly, being conservative may be one of those traits too, but it's less obviously true). I know it's common to look at the most unhinged people on Twitter and say…

[flagged]

I'm not pretending anything. I think this is a straightforward issue for people on the left: human rights means equal rights. Whether some nutjobs have forgotten that doesn't detract from the basic principle.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#538

Post by veec_cas_tant »

distant_hat wrote: post #103
unshavedyak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, as a quite left leaning person i'd be curious to hear how i or anyone i know (who is on the left) marginalizes a group of people. The worst i can think of is wanting more equal rights for religious groups rather than special treatment of the primary group (in the USA) - which is seen as an attack by much of the right. Likewise i am concerned by the strong emphasis of rural over urban with respect to voting power…

The left's support for Islam directly marginalizes minorities within Islamic countries as well as women and gays fighting for their rights there.

I'm a person that isn't active on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. so I don't see the crazy fringe stuff (usually). For what it's worth, it doesn't seem that the mainstream left (or Democrats, or whatever the term I'm looking for is) really supports or opposes religion in general. They seem to support the person in a "Muslim people are not bad or dangerous" way but don't address the religion. I do see the mainstream right (again, don't know the correct term) support Christianity and oppose both Muslims and Islam itself.

I'm not trying to give an opinion, just stating what I see as a person who doesn't interact with the online political sphere at all.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#539

Post by barry-cotter »

Flatcircle wrote: post #366

I heard a friend who had a brilliant theory. The rise of ad profiling from Facebook and Google etc, has bleed into the public consciousness at large and now it's considered normal to categorize people by race, gender, politics, and income etc. First the companies did, and now we all do. But of course, a person is more than their race, or gender, or income, etc. Most of the time they have very little in common with th…

This is stupid. The US government has been categorising people by census category for longer than my grandmother has been alive. They even managed to get some buy in on stupid fake categories like AAPI.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#540

Post by veec_cas_tant »

turbokatsu20 wrote: post #535
Miner49er wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a leftist and fail to see the problem with this. Context matters. If a slave kills their master, would you say that crime is immoral? Generally punching up is considered less hateful or immoral, and I don't see why that is bad.

I would say taking somebodies life simply because of their position of dominance over you as immoral, yes.

I believe your view is an extremely unpopular opinion. If a kidnapping victim killed their kidnapper, I don't believe anyone would advocate for their punishment.
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