Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

davidrozado.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 697 posts

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#131

Post by prometheus76 »

greybox wrote: post #128
prometheus76 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the whole point of this is that the first part of your "vs" statement and your second part can have huge overlap if you happen to agree with the worldview that is informing the responses of the AI. It looks fair to you if it spits out the response that fits your view of the world. But the whole point is, there's no such thing as "objective", especially when you start talking about people. There's no place to…

> there's no such thing as "objective", especially when you start talking about people I agree with you. However I would add to your statement about AI being revealing. One thing that AI I feel is revealing to me at least, is that it's now making me think much more about the distinction "a human search for truth" however flawed that may be, and things that are made simply to appeal to my biases. Linking this back to…

And my point is, for those working on this system, it appears to be very difficult for them to see the difference between "trying to search for truth" and "a rule written by a system that just parrots t he most pleasing thing back to us" because it is a venn diagram that completely overlaps, since they think that they are "trying to search for truth" and haven't considered that they might be wrong, because everyone they work with sees the world the same way they do. They are never challenged, until the platforms get exposed to the public.

This is essentially the same situation as people who have never left their state, or their home country. Many things they take for granted and that they consider to be "basic human nature" actually end up being very cultural and very uncommon once one starts traveling outside one's home country. But you are completely unaware of these situations because they never get challenged when you live in a culture that instantiated itself in you as you grew up.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#132

Post by swyx »

jonfw wrote: post #9

I think most people would agree that a lot of the content on the internet is left-leaning. It seems obvious in hindsight, but I'd never considered it before, that training an AI model on that content would introduce a bit of a bias We all know garbage in, garbage out. But liberal in, liberal out is an interesting idea, and I'm not sure how you fix it

[flagged]

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#134

Post by bee_rider »

ryandrake wrote: post #122
poszlem wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FzZnAAAAMAAJ&q=%22the+fa...

If you're going to attribute deaths that happen in a communist country to communism itself, then don't you need to also attribute deaths that happen in democratic/capitalist countries to democracy and capitalism? Should we add them up and compare?

You see Ryan, in capitalist America, you fail economy!

Hmm, the joke doesn’t work as well reversed.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#135

Post by npteljes »

jonfw wrote: post #9

I think most people would agree that a lot of the content on the internet is left-leaning. It seems obvious in hindsight, but I'd never considered it before, that training an AI model on that content would introduce a bit of a bias We all know garbage in, garbage out. But liberal in, liberal out is an interesting idea, and I'm not sure how you fix it

>I think most people would agree that a lot of the content on the internet is left-leaning.

This is an empty statement. The internet is vast, and it's filled to the brim with content, from all sides. For a demonstration, check the linked website, and click the Bias categories. Huge amount of publications, in every category.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#136

Post by unshavedyak »

hersko wrote: post #124
unshavedyak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, as a quite left leaning person i'd be curious to hear how i or anyone i know (who is on the left) marginalizes a group of people. The worst i can think of is wanting more equal rights for religious groups rather than special treatment of the primary group (in the USA) - which is seen as an attack by much of the right. Likewise i am concerned by the strong emphasis of rural over urban with respect to voting power…

Jews on college campuses [1] and jews in the black lives matter movement [2] come to mind. [1] https://www.frc.org/antisemitism [2] https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/black-lives-matters-jewish-p...

That's definitely an interesting one. Not shared in my group, nor would i understand what "the left" would have against Jews, especially in a religious context. They seem rather innocuous when compared to the more vocal and physical religions.

Do you honestly believe most left leaning individuals have something against the Jews?

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#137

Post by jay-barronville »

zug_zug wrote: post #107

I guess I feel like this is a silly can of worms. I suppose asking for exact equality isn't dumb, but it's a language model, not a paragon of truth. I feel like if OpenAI takes these concerns seriously the goal-posts will inevitably move to more social pressure from all sorts of axe-to-grind-groups - -- Why does/doesn't ai say Mohamad is/isn't horrible for having 99 wives (or whatever) -- Why doesn't ai say Jeffrey E…

It’s interesting, I ran similar experiments not too long ago after seeing a tweet from Marc Andreessen (I’ll try to find it) in which he suggested this was going on. The results surprised me too.

As a now conservative but former Marxist-Leninist who happens to be black, I think this is dangerous (I don’t use this word lightly).

When I was a leftist stuck in my far-leftist bubble, I didn’t realize just how unreasonable/unrealistic some of my positions were until I was challenged by my more conservative friends, colleagues, etc. Social networks like Facebook made it even harder to see anything outside of my existing views by primarily reinforcing content and folks who held similar views. It’s been years now since I’ve had an active social network account, and in hindsight, it’s amazing just how much these social networks have helped turn so many of us into ideologues. To now see a world where the same thing is going to happen via these GPT-based AI’s is scary to me.

Even more unfortunate is knowing that these biases will only get stronger as they’re further reinforced, especially in an industry that’s so biased to the left. While so many folks/companies claim to value “diversity,” in my experience, it’s almost never actual diversity (i.e., diversity of thought), but instead, a bunch of folks who believe the same things and think the same but look different (sometimes, they don’t even look different — *facepalm*). It’s always hilarious the reactions I get from folks who claim to value “diversity” when they find out I’m not a liberal, because, you know, as a black person, I must be a leftist!

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#138

Post by boredumb »

An amusing reflection into a modern day social hierarchy according to the public online sphere. Also fun to imagine that most of these language models are snapshots of consumable and parseable discourse and so their bias will be a time capsule of the overton window from a certain time period.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#139

Post by ceejayoz »

poszlem wrote: post #46
random314 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> The most famous anti-fascists were and are communists...

I dunno, we make quite a few WWII movies about heroic Americans storming Normandy's beaches and whatnot.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#140

Post by brmgb »

jonahx wrote: post #130
brmgb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daily reminder that the world doesn't stop at the borders of the USA and ChatGPT has a significant number of global users. Both the linked article and OpenAI moderation are very annoying to me as a French. We are slowly reaching a point where I feel entierely disconnected from most things coming out of the USA. I wouldn't mind too much but it's even starting to contaminate things I thought were unrelated to the Ameri…

The same culture way is playing out all over the world, especially in Europe.

Hum, no, it's not.

Of course, we marginally suffer from what we are importing and some students having too much free time on their hand try to argue rather unsuccessfully for intersectional studies but the models used in the USA don't map well on the European context for obvious historical reasons. Our left vs right debate also has nothing to do with the US one.

From where I stand, the cultural gap between the USA and Europe (in so far as Europe can be considered a homogenous area - it clearly can't) has never been that big.

Post reply on HN