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Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

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Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#131

Post by KptMarchewa »

purututu wrote: post #97
mach1ne wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though something has a benevolent rationalization, it doesn’t mean the true motives are benevolent. It doesn’t need any New World Order conspiracy either. People in ruling positions often enjoy power, and they may be clueless as to how this desire is affecting their decisionmaking.

> It doesn’t need any New World Order conspiracy either. NWO is not a conspiracy theory any longer. This exact terminology is openly used by many politicians now, demanding for a NWO. Depending which bubble you live in, you have not seen any or only too little such speeches.

Sure, if your bubble is "project veritas".

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#132

Post by [deleted] »

ecmascript wrote: post #36
msm_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can your country of birth lobby in the EU to stop laws like this?

Honestly, I would believe some of them already do it. You're reading the news from a Swedish company anyway so we use to be pretty vigilant on privacy issues. Sweden is a small player compared to Germany and France, so I am uncertain how much weight our words have.

[deleted]

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#133

Post by throwrqX »

Every time this comes up people talk about protecting privacy and anonymity and what not and while luckily for us most of the time the laws die out they still do pass on occasion. The fundamental issue to me is that society still wants to protect against pedophiles or drug dealers or whatever other group more than protect privacy. As an example, how many people here could go on television onto some talk program or news show with their real name and face and tell a child abuse victim that while their concerns may be valid they are wrong and they should shut up? I doubt very many. I ran into a similar scenario once defending privacy when a lady who said she was abused as a child came into the conversation and told her story to the crowd. As you can imagine the crowd was very supportive of her and my concerns were more or less dismissed afterwards. There is nothing technical I could say that could persuade them as much as the poor lady's life story could.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#134

Post by brutusborn »

xorry wrote: post #69

> every single line that you write in all kinds of messaging apps (including encrypted services), your e-mails — yes, all of this — can be filtered out ... how exactly will this work?

Government controlled firmware on all devices that reads the messages after they are unencrypted?

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#135

Post by charles_f »

Ok I know it sounds crazy but hear me out.

I'm certain my neighbour is secretly conspiring against me. I've seen the signs, I'm not an idiot. He closes the curtains when I look into his place, I've seen him talking with the other neighbours, and you won't believe it! He named his dog Bozo, which I'm sure is just to allow him to call me names scott-free! I confronted him but he tells me to chill out. The balls on this guys...

Now if we get that mass surveillance going on, we can safely assume that they'll mission private companies to do it. We all knoe what's happening in this case, they hire the best of the best (and by that I mean the best at cutting on cost and maximizing shareholders revenues). These have the best security teams! (and by that I mean that they cost very little). I can only hope for an Equifax or a Lastpass like breach, but worst case scenario I'm sure they will gladly sell my neighbour's data, and I'll finally be able to prove that SoaB is after me.

I know all the privacy-conscious sissies out there will cry out, but I don't have anything to hide. I take good care of deleting my browser history and using private mode when I browse illegal websites

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#136

Post by rojobuffalo »

Hizonner wrote: post #80
brookst wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always skeptical of phrases like “true motives”. Sometimes people can do the wrong thing for the right reasons, or totally amorally. There doesn’t have to be a secret agenda. Framing things in terms of shadowy cabals that hide their secret motivations weakens the argument and reduces odds of successful resistance to these programs by misunderstanding the opposition.

I believe the idea is not that they hide their motives, but that they hide from their motives. May or may not be true, but still...

I think hide implies intent to deceive. It's often more like conscious and sub-conscious reasoning. We constantly tell a story to ourselves about our motives. We're impulsive and wrong a lot of the time. And nobody is the bad guy in their own story.

Maybe it's willful ignorance. Ignorance of the misuse and harm of mass surveillance.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#137

Post by arlort »

qikInNdOutReply wrote: post #21

There should be a law against spamming the lawmaking process with proposals that have previously failed or are near identical to it, for a set time period. Means, you are no longer allowed to lobby for a law proposal once it has been rejected for a time period of one voting cycle.

This proposal hasn't been made before (at least in the EU at the EU level)

If you're thinking that you saw something like this last year and now again it's the same law. The EU legislative process is extremely slow (not that it's a bad thing in this case, I'd rather this not get rushed through, or even better not get through at all)

And even now it is not likely to pass before December 2023 or might even get delayed to January 2024

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#138

Post by gjsman-1000 »

purututu wrote: post #97
mach1ne wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though something has a benevolent rationalization, it doesn’t mean the true motives are benevolent. It doesn’t need any New World Order conspiracy either. People in ruling positions often enjoy power, and they may be clueless as to how this desire is affecting their decisionmaking.

> It doesn’t need any New World Order conspiracy either. NWO is not a conspiracy theory any longer. This exact terminology is openly used by many politicians now, demanding for a NWO. Depending which bubble you live in, you have not seen any or only too little such speeches.

Example, even though I don't believe many of the conspiracy theories regarding them, here's the WEF calling for everyone to literally build a "New World Order."

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/12/we-must-work-together...

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/conspiracy-theor...

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#139

Post by daenney »

ecmascript wrote: post #23
esskay wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful what you wish for. Here in the UK since leaving the government have been doing all they can to ensure mass surveilance and repression becomes more and more common, without those "pesky" EU laws stopping them.

Yeah I know, sorry to hear that but: 1. It is way easier to change the minds of the people in your home country rather than in several countries. 2. My country of birth, Sweden, has more history of rejecting stuff like that.

> 2. My country of birth, Sweden, has more history of rejecting stuff like that.

You might want to check the article as to Swedes and Sweden's involvement in the drafting of this in the first place. And the NDRE is another thing which the country happily introduced and expanded upon. As far as mass surveillance of populations go, Sweden's not on the side of protecting privacy.

Re: Stop the proposal on mass surveillance of the EU

#140

Post by walterbell »

alexbiet wrote: post #63

Let them have it. Complete and absolute control over all citizens. Nothing more, nothing less. Then what? They will finally realise absolute power is an empty pursuit that brings nothing but misery for both the masses and the so called elites. False leaders have no place leading anyone as they lead through fear and insecurity. Their lack of trust cemented in incompetence, arrogance and hubris leads to a neurotic chas…

Why would mortal humans waste time/money on mass experiments with predictably useless outcomes?
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