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Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

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Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#621

Post by jimbokun »

User23 wrote: post #587
jimbokun wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just isn’t true at all. Women have different personalities and indicate their attraction or lack of attraction in very different ways. Flirting for some women is the exact same behavior presented to everyone for other women. If you want to know if a woman is attracted to you, ask her out and see what she says

> If you want to know if a woman is attracted to you, ask her out and see what she says Sometimes she'll say no to test to see if you're serious or not and probably to test your social acumen too. Picking up whether it's a "no, I'm not interested" or a "no, but I want to see more" is exactly the kind of social cue reading I'm talking about. And yeah learning that can be rough for people who aren't naturals and especi…

This is a very risky approach.

Taking no for no, and moving on with a smile to other women can show confidence, and maybe she will reconsider and take steps to get back into your social life.

In general, asking over and over again hoping for a different answer can signal desperation.

So it turns out in this situation, the spectrumy response of just taking a response at face value, can also be the best strategy for the "sexual marketplace".

That is in addition to it just being the right and decent thing to do, of course.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#622

Post by sinity »

jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

So, the social norms are that men are supposed to approach women to form relationships.

But they can't even offer women free tutoring lessons... because other women feel bad about it? Wat?

Or women are offended, supposedly rightfully, solely because of the presence of these men (because person who asked the question said clearly they have done nothing wrong)? What the...?

"Being distracted with insecurities" - men, on the other hand, have no such problems, yes? They willingly went to classes that are useless to them, in order to try to impress women.

We live in a society, I guess...

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#623

Post by sinity »

zozbot234 wrote: post #284
jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

I think you're right about this. The male auditors are overdoing the whole showboating thing in a way that creates a bad experience for the rest of the students, and probably doesn't really help their romantic prospects either. Sensible women want to get to know friends in a gradual, natural fashion and perhaps be a little wowed in non-obvious ways. No one wants to be advertised to with "FREE private tutoring session…

> Sensible women want to get to know friends in a gradual, natural fashion and perhaps be a little wowed in non-obvious ways.

How do you befriend these "sensible women" if it's apparently not okay to go where they are -- because they're there?

I've done the opposite to what these guys do by ignoring this when choosing my education, so I met basically no female peers from HS to higher education to _now_.

Discussion around this question really reinforces my conviction that things are fuc*d beyond point of repair. "Get to know friends in a gradual, natural fashion"? Lol, impossible, because you can't even meet people without it being an issue.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#624

Post by sinity »

joe-collins wrote: post #278
murrkat wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there not a chance one of the young men offering open labs or tutoring might, in fact, be intelligent, enthusiastic about the sciences and decent ?

If they're so intelligent and decent, why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place?

> why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place?

Seems rather ingenious, frankly. What tactics should they rely on, exactly? "Intelligent and decent" alone aren't traits that are necessarily attractive anyway.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#625

Post by sinity »

ofcourseyoudo wrote: post #439
lelanthran wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they're so intelligent and decent, why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place? Because it's a) Not disturbing, and b) working. I mean, seriously, if they keep their hands to themselves and make no unwanted advances, what exactly do you find indecent about this?

You're in a couple of these threads stanning for these creeps. As a mental exercise: why do you think several of the women are demoralized by this environment if there's nothing going wrong here?

> why do you think several of the women are demoralized by this environment if there's nothing going wrong here?

So if some woman is demoralized solely by my presence, I should move out of her sight?

Oh, also: these demoralized women are apparently the ones who aren't getting attention. So yeah...

IDK, I believe in gender equality.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#626

Post by sinity »

fragmede wrote: post #302
joe-collins wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're so intelligent and decent, why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place?

Because they are, in fact, decent, and find going to frat parties to engage with a drunk girl who can't properly consent, or hiring a prostitute, to be reprehensible. Online dating doesn't work unless you're in the top X% of attractiveness, so what's a college student to do? They're not generally rich enough to garner the attention of women that way, and they're competing against a larg pool of older men who are .

> to engage with a drunk girl who can't properly consent

Shouldn't we disallow girls from drinking alcohol, then? It's rather weird to allow parties with alcohol, and then claim that rape occured "because someone was drunk and so cannot be held responsible for their decisions".

What if the man was also drunk? If a drunk person can't be held responsible for their decisions, well...

I don't understand why is it always about guys supposedly taking advantage of girls.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#627

Post by sinity »

sidlls wrote: post #405
joe-collins wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're so intelligent and decent, why are they relying on such disturbing tactics to meet women in the first place?

In this age group the ratio of who are not assessing dating partners based almost purely on physical attractiveness to those who are is tiny. That being said, this is appalling, predatory behavior on the part of the students using the app. These are vulnerable people that the app users are taking advantage of and trying to manipulate into an intimate relationship.

> These are vulnerable people that the app users are taking advantage of and trying to manipulate into an intimate relationship.

Of course. Men should just stay alone, unless they are hyper attractive. Because _attempting_ to get to know other people is "manipulation into intimate relationship".

I guess they're cheating because they don't know their place? Predatory behavior, lol.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#628

Post by sinity »

nhchris wrote: post #292
jhanschoo wrote: post #198

I'm appalled that so many other commenters don't see an issue with such behavior in class: > number of female students have approached me, noting they are disgusted and uncomfortable with the amount of leching taking place > It's also demoralizing several of them, since we routinely have cases where a young man is leading open labs as if they're a teacher themselves (in order to "wow" their female classmates, offer "…

Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what. Why would it be any more demoralizing if that attention comes with tutoring? Why would it be distracting? It seems everyone is complaining except the girls getting tutored. And if they did complain, if some guy was pushy or wouldn't take no for an answer, then deal with him the same as any other such guy - that they're attending a class for the sake of dat…

> Less attractive girls get less male attention no matter what. Why would it be any more demoralizing if that attention comes with tutoring? Why would it be distracting?

And fuckton of men get literally 0 attention. That's, of course, not an issue at all.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#629

Post by sinity »

sugarpile wrote: post #452
weakfish wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be demoralizing because your attractiveness shouldn’t factor into whether you can get academic help

Why not? This is reality and how the world works. Attractive men and women get promoted more easily, get better service in bars and restaurants, etc… to infinity. This idea that it’s more worthwhile to wail at the sky about how the world works rather than acknowledge it and seek to take advantage of other areas of life where the scales are tipped in your favor fucking mystifies me.

> This idea that it’s more worthwhile to wail at the sky about how the world works rather than acknowledge it and seek to take advantage of other areas of life where the scales are tipped in your favor fucking mystifies me.

Yep. This discussion is full of insinuation that trying to leverage your knowledge or intelligence to attract women is _manipulation_ or _predatory_.

Re: Need help with students who've turned my class into a dating service

#630

Post by sinity »

Larrikin wrote: post #228
Der_Einzige wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things have not gotten better. I had several 3 and 4 hundred level CS classes with literally zero women in them. This was at a large, major public school with several hundred in our CS program.

My upper level CS classes in college had one woman back in early 2010s. I entered grad school some years later. My graduate level CS courses that over lapped the data science classes were usually around fifty percent. The courses that didn't were more male but nothing close to undergraduate. It really wasn't something I noticed like in undergrad. So seems to be getting better What I did notice was both the data scien…

> Seems extremely stupid of us to be kicking out highly educated individuals basically randomly.

I don't understand why the US won't allow me to migrate*. Presumably someone from the EU making above-average salary should be net gain. There are no significant "cultural differences", I think.

I resent that tech world is centered on the SV and I don't have fucking access because I was born in the wrong location. I guess I should be happy it was inside of the EU, at least.

* well, I haven't tried. Diversity lottery has bullshit odds, H1b is too hard to get. I think I'd be willing to offer sth like $100K for a permanent residence permit, if it was possible. Why isn't it?

Instead the price is investing ~$1M - apparently, if you need to work for a living, you're not free.

(through it's _investing_ - presumably there could be a way to _pay_ someone less than that to invest on your behalf and then take that money later, along with what you paid them for this service. Hmm.)

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