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Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

abc.net.au

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Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#221

Post by mhb »

twawaaay wrote: post #218
mhb wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. but things they have in common are questionable cost/benefit, and, undoubtedly, unintended consequences. It also is not a better way to solve the problem. Now someone has to replace the batteries of the "beacon" or remember to charge it? How are they going to remember? Why not just have that same person remember to check that the source is secured properly?

> Right. but things they have in common are questionable cost/benefit, and, undoubtedly, unintended consequences. Attaching a beacon to highly dangerous radiation source is questionable, and has "undoubtedly" unintended consequences? Looks like searching for a problem where there isn't one.

Why not just have that same person remember to check that the source is secured properly?

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#222

Post by lxgr »

mulmen wrote: post #187
twawaaay wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, exactly. What an engineer thinks: "Why not attach this thing to a beacon so that it can't be lost?" What everybody else thinks: "Why not persecute everybody responsible to the fullest possible extent?" Which is just our reptilian brain looking for somebody to blame but isn't actually helping anything.

> "Why not attach this thing to a beacon so that it can't be lost?" It’s literally radio active. It is a beacon.

Visible light is electromagnetic radiation too. Does this mean that an LED is the same thing as an AirTag?

I'm not sure if this specific source is isotropic or directional, but it's very possible for it to be both extremely hard to detect from even a couple of meters away, yet still pose a great hazard.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#223

Post by rswail »

8organicbits wrote: post #93

I wonder what lessons learned and mitigations will come out of this. My armchair analysis is that there should be a Geiger counter on any vehicle moving radioactive material. I suspect the device had shielding to protect the driver, so an alarm should have gone off when that shielding broke. From that point on the driver was sitting close to an unshielded radiation source and in danger. I'm not an expect, but I suspe…

A satellite beacon or equivalent is probably more useful, attached to the source.

As well as better designed containment/carriers that don't have the possibility of letting the radioactive source "drop out on the side of the road".

Rio Tinto has remote control trucks and automated trains in WA, I know some of the people that worked on the software.

I'm pretty sure that there is already a contract being let to work out a better way of handling this stuff, and perhaps automatically tracking it.

Geofencing the beacon based on its expected location would also identify this sort of situation.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#224

Post by lxgr »

mulmen wrote: post #201
twawaaay wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was literally lost. A properly engineered beacon cannot be lost this way as long as it operates.

> He said a search vehicle was driving past at 70 kilometres per hour on the Great Northern Highway when a detection device revealed radiation. They found it because it is literally a beacon. Beacons do nothing to prevent loss, they only facilitate relocation.

They found it because they got incredibly lucky.

If it would have bounced just a few meters further off the road, landed in a ditch and get covered by something, or its emission beam angled away from the road/sky (for directional sources), it might never be found (or not before it causes some harm).

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#225

Post by sidewndr46 »

stirlo wrote: post #74
TomK32 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia has slipped quite a few places on the last World Press Freedom Index. Let's not forget that friendlyjordies, while also making comedy videos but also making videos on corruption, politicians and the gambiling industry, was targeted by a firebomb and his house burnt down. Luckily he was away and no one at home.

Right but there is no suggestion the firebombing was linked to any government or regulatory policy/action/initiative. It's simply that he upset organised crime groups. These exist everywhere in the world and theres no suggestion the Australian authorities aren't investigating and trying to bring those responsible to justice.

Yes, because an organized crime group would never have a politician involved. That politician also might never mention to said crime group that an investigation might be difficult, ineffective, or simply take a very long time to determine those responsible.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#226

Post by rswail »

stefs wrote: post #35
defrost wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These have been used and regularly replaced since the 1970s and this is the first time one has been lost in transit. Yes, they can do better and hopefully will do so in the future with more rules, regulations and checks. But, see [1] - you'd imagine someone would have thought about the front of an oil tanker falling off. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirki_(tanker)

the front fell off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM

I knew what this was before I clicked. I've watched it a million times. I watched it again. These guys were comedic geniuses.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#227

Post by mrguyorama »

mhb wrote: post #221
twawaaay wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right. but things they have in common are questionable cost/benefit, and, undoubtedly, unintended consequences. Attaching a beacon to highly dangerous radiation source is questionable, and has "undoubtedly" unintended consequences? Looks like searching for a problem where there isn't one.

Why not just have that same person remember to check that the source is secured properly?

Because "Just do the right thing first" isn't actually a good harm reduction or problem prevention strategy? Shit goes wrong and you should have a system where lots of shit has to go wrong all at the same time before it causes a problem.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#228

Post by Someone1234 »

O__________O wrote: post #216

>> Its loss sparked an unprecedented public safety warning over 1,400km […] a search vehicle was driving past at 70 kilometres per hour on the Great Northern Highway when a detection device revealed radiation. […] 20 metre "hot zone" has been set up around the capsule to ensure the public's safety. Why did it take 5-days to find it? Even just two vehicles driving from either start or end of the path should have cover…

If we had vehicles at either end of the path already configured for positional radiation detection, sure. To determine what needs to happen could have taken a day or more, then a couple of days or more to get the equipment/expertise/calibration done.

You're acting like a very specialized operation is some day-to-day occurrence that they should have rolling stock and experts ready to go at a moments notice. That has no basis in reality.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#229

Post by mindslight »

defrost wrote: post #42
doctor_eval wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to point out to others that the above is parody.

Yes it's deliberate exaggeration for comic effect of the simple bald fact that the front fell off of the bloody oil tanker.

But couldn't they add some sort of sensor to detect when the front falls off?

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#230

Post by dang »

defrost wrote: post #143
avereveard wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming customers for companies malfeasance must have been one of the greatest deflection tactics ever invented and it saddens me deeply when it gets parroted verbatim by the general populace.

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