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Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

pta.gov.pk

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Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#71

Post by _Algernon_ »

pen2l wrote: post #50

Previously there was a comment that was quite elucidative made by an HN user here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34304824 In recent years I've come around to viewing the American ideal of absolute "free speech" as not being all that nuanced, particularly because we know know the speed at which viral false and illegitimate claims travel and the slower speed at which reasoned responses to those speech travel. I…

It's not supposed to be nuanced. Nuanced takes on free speech are politically motivated, that is, people who have everything to gain by limiting speech making the decisions.

I'd rather have absolute free speech than self-interested dotards limiting my speech.

"Poor taste" is subjective. Drawing Mohammad should be legal, even if people don't have to like it. Terrorism in response is despicable no matter what speech occurred beforehand.

E2A: https://www.theonion.com/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-ima... (NSFW)

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#72

Post by weberer »

whizzter wrote: post #35
LinuxBender wrote: post #4

I would love wag the finger but first I would have to clean up my own country, the United States of America. When the US government stops pressuring social media platforms to censor speech and they stop happily complying then perhaps I might have room to criticize other nations. [Edit] And how should this be addressed in the US? Simple. Only censor things that are explicitly and clearly illegal under federal law and…

US Laws are why people aren't posting classic European art because one nipple and you're gone.

There are no laws against that.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#73

Post by kibwen »

jl6 wrote: post #30
beardyw wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am trying to think why Wikipedia would care about this. They offer a free service - if you don't want it that's just disappointing.

They might care that Pakistani Wikipedia editors and readers alike could find themselves targeted by the Pakistani authorities.

By that argument, HN should remove any comment that mentions Tianenmen Square, so that readers in China do not find themselves targeted by the CCP.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#74

Post by factsarelolz »

recuter wrote: post #52
cactusplant7374 wrote: post #43

Twitter appears to have complied with removing the BBC documentary tweets for users in India. So some tweets are not available in India. It does look like Wikipedia is ahead of Twitter in the free speech absolutist game if it prefers being blocked to compliance.

You're comparing a group chat to an encyclopedia...

> encyclopedia

Encyclopedias are not warped to fit a minority groups opinion like Wikipedia is. Wikipedia is a website, not a trusted source. Not sure when Wikipedia became something more than a crowdsourced opinion site.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#75

Post by belval »

pen2l wrote: post #50

Previously there was a comment that was quite elucidative made by an HN user here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34304824 In recent years I've come around to viewing the American ideal of absolute "free speech" as not being all that nuanced, particularly because we know know the speed at which viral false and illegitimate claims travel and the slower speed at which reasoned responses to those speech travel. I…

> I think we can all agree that artistic depictions of Mohammad [...] are something that are of poor taste because they trigger the sensibilities

I disagree, because the slippery slope is VERY slippery here. Eating meat triggers the sensibility of some vegans, so does hunting, something isn't "in poor taste" just because it triggers.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#76

Post by nashashmi »

recuter wrote: post #52
cactusplant7374 wrote: post #43

Twitter appears to have complied with removing the BBC documentary tweets for users in India. So some tweets are not available in India. It does look like Wikipedia is ahead of Twitter in the free speech absolutist game if it prefers being blocked to compliance.

You're comparing a group chat to an encyclopedia...

Wikipedia has become closer to group chat. And twitter closer to valuable dissemination of first person content.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#77

Post by anoonmoose »

scientism019324 wrote: post #56
hnews_account_1 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They disowned their one Nobel laureate and maybe one of the greatest minds of his generation because of his Islam being different from their Islam. That place is a failed nation. Thank fuck for the internet so the people aren’t insulated from the outside world.

Same thing happened to James Watson.

If I'm reading about the correct James Watson, this is not a fair or accurate comparison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watson#Comments_on_race

Edit: the psychology of creating an account to make that particular comment is fascinating to me.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

Karsteski wrote: post #58
cactusplant7374 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How similar is it though? The US sent emails with suggestions to Twitter. Pakistan is threatening/will block Wikipedia.

What would have happened had Twitter not complied with said suggestions? To the company, to the executives, to regular employees? The threat of that is very real.

> What would have happened had Twitter not complied with said suggestions?

Twitter did exactly that in some cases, with no apparent repercussions.

In the most recent transparency report (https://transparency.twitter.com/en/reports/countries/us.htm...) Twitter declined ~30% of data requests from US government agencies.

They are also suing the government over NSLs; https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/a/2014/taking-the-fi...

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#79

Post by yreg »

Wikipedia doesn't comply with government censorship and interestingly it is apparently so important that the national governments very often cave in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Wikipedia

Some countries used to block specific articles, but that's not possible anymore thanks to HTTPS. Local editors in such places are at risk of prosecution though.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#80

Post by jacooper »

robertlagrant wrote: post #5

I'm starting to view more and more things as nationalism vs globalism. E.g. multinational corporations vs national tax laws E.g. global internet services vs national privacy laws E.g. global internet services vs national decency laws (the posted issue) I'm starting to realise this mismatch is where a lot of friction is and will continue to be.

Its not nationalism, but fairness. If nationally you can't just work people all week, then an american company with unlimited VC money, selling its user data to everybody and working its workers to death will absolutely crush any local or neighboring competitor.

There must be limits, because as we have seen, globalism as its currently is basically american everything.

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