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Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

abc.net.au

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Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#191

Post by twawaaay »

racnid wrote: post #180
Someone wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What an engineer thinks: "Why not attach this thing to a beacon so that it can't be lost?" Would the beacon survive for long while being irradiated? Also, this thing was part of a reasonably large object (I assume one full of radiation warnings), but that object broke down during transport. If one attached a beacon, that similarly could end up detached from the capsule.

Well by all accounts (of people that seem competent on the internet...) the source is just fine as it's own beacon. Even detectable by a low flying helicopter with the right equipment.

Well, by the account of the article you are responding to the source has been lost.

Not very useful beacon if you don't detect when you lost it or you need to put an enormous search party to find it.

We have GPS devices with satellite comms that can periodically transmit information about where they are that anybody who plans to trek in the wilderness can buy and use to start a SAR operation.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#192

Post by twawaaay »

mhb wrote: post #174
twawaaay wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, exactly. What an engineer thinks: "Why not attach this thing to a beacon so that it can't be lost?" What everybody else thinks: "Why not persecute everybody responsible to the fullest possible extent?" Which is just our reptilian brain looking for somebody to blame but isn't actually helping anything.

> What an engineer thinks: "Why not attach this thing to a beacon so that it can't be lost?" Or put cameras everywhere to deter crime.

I am not asking to limit anybody's freedom. A beacon would be attached to radiation source.

Unless you are an individual who walks around with a highly toxic, highly dangerous radiation source, requiring it to have a beacon will not limit your freedom.

As to putting cameras to deter crime, they are shown not to work. The crime just moves to where there are no cameras. Or stupid people will crime anyway. US is leading or close to leading in both crime rates and incarceration rates, at least in the western world. Suggesting the basic premise of what US is doing may be flawed, from engineering standpoint.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#193

Post by trelane »

wkat4242 wrote: post #63
defrost wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bang on - it's for density. You'll also see radioactive sources in household smoke alarms on a smaller scale to estimate smoke load in air, and in mineral exploration in downhole detectors mapping density of surrounding materials, in oil and gas measuring the density profiles of fluids as they flow past, etc. Flashlights are visible light spectrum sources, gamma emitters are similar in function ( Cs-137 emits a 32 Ke…

Those household smoke detectors were in the 80s, the ones sold now are optical. But of course there's many still around, sadly

> Those household smoke detectors were in the 80s, the ones sold now are optical.

No, ionization detectors are still around. They're better for detecting flame fires than optical. Think of when you've seen a campfire and there's been little smoke. There was definitely a fire, but an optical detector wouldn't have detected it.

In contrast, optical is better for smoking fires. Best practice is to have some of each. In fact, I believe some models have both in the same unit.

http://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Staying-safe/Safety-equ...

> But of course there's many still around, sadly

I hope not.

PSA: most smoke detectors have a lifespan of 10 years. Smoke detectors from the 80s would be mostly useless now, 40+ years later.

https://www.allstate.com/resources/home-insurance/how-long-d...

Another PSA: while you're replacing your old smoke detectors, if you have combustion heat, consider replacing some of them with ones that also detect CO. (You'll have to replace them in 5-7years, though.)

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#194

Post by tomcam »

> The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, this morning joined those disappointed to learn the maximum penalty for mishandling radioactive material in such a manner was $1,000.

Sincere question. In this particular case, wouldn’t a minimal fine tend to be in everyone’s best interest? Make it Draconian and the company has more motivation to cover it up, right?

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#195

Post by [deleted] »

defrost wrote: post #165
avereveard wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you trying to hold me personally responsible for other people accountability is at a foundamental level a repeat of the same deflection tactic as expressed above, and warrants a repeat of the same general concept: I do not bear any responsability in the atrocities that far away government allow to be inflicted on their own populace, and I do not profit from them, and the accountability rest on the government of the o…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#196

Post by Someone »

trilbyglens wrote: post #179
Someone wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What an engineer thinks: "Why not attach this thing to a beacon so that it can't be lost?" Would the beacon survive for long while being irradiated? Also, this thing was part of a reasonably large object (I assume one full of radiation warnings), but that object broke down during transport. If one attached a beacon, that similarly could end up detached from the capsule.

Why not just put it in a bulky plastic blister pack, like we do for like, razors? Make the tiny thing larger and harder to lose?

But it already was larger; It was part of a “density gauge” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_densitometry). It’s not as if somebody but this in a trouser pocket (would be extremely foolish, of course) or laid it on the car’s dashboard (slightly less foolish, but still extremely so) and then lost it.

I wouldn’t know whether the pictures on that Wikipedia page resemble what this was on, but I expect it to have been of similar size.

The problem was that something (¿excessive car vibrations?, ¿a speed bump?, ¿bad packaging? ¿bad design of the gauge? That’s to be researched) dislodged it from that device and that it then dropped out of the car.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#197

Post by twawaaay »

mulmen wrote: post #187
twawaaay wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, exactly. What an engineer thinks: "Why not attach this thing to a beacon so that it can't be lost?" What everybody else thinks: "Why not persecute everybody responsible to the fullest possible extent?" Which is just our reptilian brain looking for somebody to blame but isn't actually helping anything.

> "Why not attach this thing to a beacon so that it can't be lost?" It’s literally radio active. It is a beacon.

It was literally lost. A properly engineered beacon cannot be lost this way as long as it operates.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#198

Post by mulmen »

macintux wrote: post #176
avereveard wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming customers for companies malfeasance must have been one of the greatest deflection tactics ever invented and it saddens me deeply when it gets parroted verbatim by the general populace.

I generally agree, but I’ve seen it taken to an extreme when I found someone claiming that a park strewn with trash wasn’t the fault of those who left their trash behind, but instead the companies that use such ecologically unfriendly packaging.

While fault may not be the appropriate term it is true that those companies have an opportunity to reduce trash in a park by changing their packaging.

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#199

Post by trashface »

martynr wrote: post #57

Does anyone else feel like this is slightly overblown? From my perspective it was a localised and relatively limited risk and had fairly obvious and achievable corrective actions with a relatively good chance of success. It intrigues me that this seems to be perceived as something so calamitous/ risky.

Perhaps not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

Re: Missing radioactive capsule found in WA outback after frantic search

#200

Post by justusthane »

Waterluvian wrote: post #183
justusthane wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's basically exactly what happened. I'm not digging up the previous piece I read (sorry), so I may be slightly misstating this, but basically the capsule was inside a sensor which was inside a wooden box bolted to the bed of the truck. On the 1600km of rough roads, the sensor vibrated to pieces, the capsule fell out, one of the bolts holding the box down also vibrated free, and the capsule fell down through…

Wow. That’s wild. It reminds me of this experience I occasionally have where something in my home gets lost in the least believable of ways, so we’re hunting for something we’ll never find. One of my kids favourite hats got lost and we looked everywhere including at school. Found it in a Halloween storage bin in the attic. Still no clue what series of events led to that.

My best one like that is my dad lost his glasses, and they turned up a few days later in the woodchute window - an opening from the outside to the basement of my parents' old farm house for tossing firewood through - which had not been used during the period the glasses were missing and was covered over.
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